Pedro4President

I don’t say this often or ever but I agree with you on this. That guy was smoking some strong peyote. He has some serious flaws in his rationale.

Pedro4President

There is so much to unravel with this 2016 vs 2019 comparison. Here’s the crux if you came here getting the HUGE bonuses then you have no room to complain about pay.

Company forces concession on pilots.
Pilots say no
Company takes away planes and bases down grades CAs to FOs
Pilots take concession with a little bonus and new flow.
Pilots leave Envoy
Company offers FO bonus money to get pilots to stay.
Pilots still leave.
Company needs pilots so it hangs out a nice bonus for NH.
NH come running right into the same 💩 that’s always been.

The only thing that got better for pilots on property was stagnation started to give way which yes was a positive. But hey you have movement now and are wanting stagnation. Crazy.

You came here knowing the company doesn’t care about to once you are here. You saw what the pilots in property got when you got you massive bonuses. You made more on day one then most of those guys made their first year. You have no room to complain because you took the bait the company used to fill seats in the plane knowing the guy sitting to your left got screwed.

Final note: Come one come all you aren’t the reason the company hasn’t offered pay rates. When pilots start leaving Envoy at rates back then is the only time you will see pay rates increase. It has little to nothing to do with NH. I welcomed the 2014 pilots all the way through the 2019 pilots and I don’t fault anyone for someone here. I came here in 2013 when this place was the worst option next to MESA. I’m thankful those guys didn’t give me grief for coming here.

wiz5422

Agree, we shouldn't be fighting with each other. It isn't any pilots fauilt that we aren't getting pay rates. It is a management team that doesn't value pilots and only them to blame.
All we can do is show them.the value we have by our actions and unity.

Excargodog

Then you are just as wrong as he is. Let’s make this simple. Compare an AA 30 year old New Hire to an AA 45 year old new hire.

Cost of type-rating both is $15k. Assume both will upgrade in 10 years. Assume both will stay in the 737 or it’s equivalent throughout their career. Over the next 10 years both will make (at current year FO 737 rates) $1.897 million (counting 16% 401k). In the next 10 years, both will make equivalent money as a captain, to whit, an additional $3.22 million.

Average cost per year to pay the 45 year old who then retires has been $5.11 million divided by 20 or about 256,000 annually.

But the younger guy goes on for another 15 years, collecting another $4.83 million, making his total $9.94 million for 35 years, or 284,000 a year.

Over the course of his career, the 45 year old will save you $28K a year for 20 years or $560K compared to the guy hired at 30 because he will have spent a larger proportion of his career both as an FO AND at the low end of the pay scale.

Yeah, you’ll have to hire two guys to get the same number of years, but there is no shortage of qualified applicants at the major, and a type rating only costs about $15K, and the yearly pay will still be lower for the second guy. And the greater the age disparity, the more they save by hiring the old codger.

Which the mainline knows, which is why they will keep the flow times as long as they possibly can. Every year they drag out the flow makes personnel costs cheaper at mainline. They realize that, even if you don’t.

The purpose of flow is to keep pilots at the REGIONAL. They have no trouble keeping mainline staffed.

Cyio

I just want to go on record that I was wrong for the initial post and apologize for the tone. I had a moment of frustration and decided to vent it here, a mistake. NH’s are not the problem, managment is, something we can’t forget. The moment we start turning on each other is when things get really bad for us.

I am however happy the topic has evolved and is getting discussion going.

Pedro4President

The only part of your statement that is solid is the last two sentences.

Flow is to keep the regional feed staffed and not to keep wage cost lower 20~30 years from now and when DP is long gone.

You keep repeating the cost analysis of a younger Vs older NH and yes obviously your conclusion is right it’s cheaper to hire an older person vs younger. My position is two fold. They are more concerned about staffing regional flights today than wage cost 20+ years from now. Second 40 year old regional pilots are running out.

TheWeatherman

Come Jan 1st, new Republic CA upgrades will be making 6 cents more an hour then a 12 year Envoy E175 CA. Damn, that is depressing.

Excargodog

Not if we can trap them at a regional for a decade with a very slow flow to mainline. The thirty year old regional pilot BECOMES a forty year old regional pilot.

Excargodog

But you got flow....

Pedro4President

We don’t have any 12 year CAs. We will soon say goodbye to all of our 7 year CAs. And the ones we do have are here by choice. Yep very depressing for those imaginary CAs.