Some practical Envoy questions
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,279
Some practical Envoy questions
Hey all, new poster here (see my introduction thread on the main board)
I have some general ENY questions that some of the recent board prospects arent asking (unless it is buried in some of the 1000 page threads) I hope some will humor me here and as always, I appreciate all the insight.
Disclaimer - I am aware of the pay negotiation situation (only as it reads here....no real inside info) and the ongoing discussions as posted on this page. I am also aware that one of the general opinions on APC is that filling classes is not a good look for those trying to improve their lives. Luckily, I am in no big hurry yet and do not have the SJS so I want to make sure I respect the efforts of those trying to make this industry better for everyone, while also trying to gather all the facts on prospective companies. I am former XJT but I fly a desk from 8-5 right now with only occasional travel.
1. Forced upgrade - Assuming I bid/recieve the 145 (which is what I have the most time in), will I be forced into upgrade? I would certainly like to fly as an FO first and learn the company flight profiles, operational differences etc. (XJT FMS was all honeywell, for example) but it sounds like that might not be up to me?
2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?
3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)
4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?
5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.
6. Seat lock - I would plan to bid whatever got me into DFW fastest.....if the landscape changed, how long are you locked into the 145 or 175 etc?
7. Any insight into company shenanigans in regards to going into SWAP every day so as not to have to follow the contract, working with crews on adjusting fuel/adjusting routes in weather, excessive MELs, etc. XJT was pretty good about all these items except for the daily SWAP? (Holy run-on...) one thing I appreciated about XJT was the CPO. Never gave us any grief about bereavement, fatigue, sick etc. (not that those all applied to me, I’m just speaking in general)
8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?
Once again, I appreciate everyone’s help with noob question ON TOP of everything else you are dealing with. I am happy to recieve (and fully expect) the “dont come here” and “look at OO” responses etc. I am looking everywhere, I can assure you. Well...everywhere that has a DFW base and loosely places that have IAH bases (which is closer to a 3 hour drive and not ideal) I apologize for the huge list of question.
TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY?
I have some general ENY questions that some of the recent board prospects arent asking (unless it is buried in some of the 1000 page threads) I hope some will humor me here and as always, I appreciate all the insight.
Disclaimer - I am aware of the pay negotiation situation (only as it reads here....no real inside info) and the ongoing discussions as posted on this page. I am also aware that one of the general opinions on APC is that filling classes is not a good look for those trying to improve their lives. Luckily, I am in no big hurry yet and do not have the SJS so I want to make sure I respect the efforts of those trying to make this industry better for everyone, while also trying to gather all the facts on prospective companies. I am former XJT but I fly a desk from 8-5 right now with only occasional travel.
1. Forced upgrade - Assuming I bid/recieve the 145 (which is what I have the most time in), will I be forced into upgrade? I would certainly like to fly as an FO first and learn the company flight profiles, operational differences etc. (XJT FMS was all honeywell, for example) but it sounds like that might not be up to me?
2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?
3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)
4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?
5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.
6. Seat lock - I would plan to bid whatever got me into DFW fastest.....if the landscape changed, how long are you locked into the 145 or 175 etc?
7. Any insight into company shenanigans in regards to going into SWAP every day so as not to have to follow the contract, working with crews on adjusting fuel/adjusting routes in weather, excessive MELs, etc. XJT was pretty good about all these items except for the daily SWAP? (Holy run-on...) one thing I appreciated about XJT was the CPO. Never gave us any grief about bereavement, fatigue, sick etc. (not that those all applied to me, I’m just speaking in general)
8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?
Once again, I appreciate everyone’s help with noob question ON TOP of everything else you are dealing with. I am happy to recieve (and fully expect) the “dont come here” and “look at OO” responses etc. I am looking everywhere, I can assure you. Well...everywhere that has a DFW base and loosely places that have IAH bases (which is closer to a 3 hour drive and not ideal) I apologize for the huge list of question.
TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY?
Last edited by CLE to IAH; 06-27-2019 at 06:24 PM.
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,789
1. Forced upgrade - Assuming I bid/recieve the 145 (which is what I have the most time in), will I be forced into upgrade? I would certainly like to fly as an FO first and learn the company flight profiles, operational differences etc. (XJT FMS was all honeywell, for example) but it sounds like that might not be up to me?
Yes, you will be forced to upgrade.
2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?
No telling really. Huge push for increased flying out of the north east on the 145. Could be longer than normal.
3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)
Unless OSO line holders are done when done. You can deny a JM but better have a good reason. Yes you can be reassigned by phone.
4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?
Yes. Not often. Nope, you bid each night. Yes. Think so? Check HI3 and HI6.
5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.
Line. Yes there is a window.
6. Seat lock - I would plan to bid whatever got me into DFW fastest.....if the landscape changed, how long are you locked into the 145 or 175 etc?
As FO until upgrade. Captain 2 years.
7. Any insight into company shenanigans in regards to going into SWAP every day so as not to have to follow the contract, working with crews on adjusting fuel/adjusting routes in weather, excessive MELs, etc. XJT was pretty good about all these items except for the daily SWAP? (Holy run-on...) one thing I appreciated about XJT was the CPO. Never gave us any grief about bereavement, fatigue, sick etc. (not that those all applied to me, I’m just speaking in general)
CPO is a crap shoot. Sometimes great, sometimes would watch you burn. Really comes down to personal experience. Fuel generally isn’t an issue, if you need it ask. If you are sick, call sick. Don’t abuse and you will be fine. Not sure what you mean by SWAP. Maintenance is actually pretty good.
8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?
DH is .75 if I remember. Cancel is full pay. Avg line is about 73 hours or so. Higher hours typically go more senior. There are usually a handful of 85 hour lines. Not many, lots of low 70’s.
Once again, I appreciate everyone’s help with noob question ON TOP of everything else you are dealing with. I am happy to recieve (and fully expect) the “dont come here” and “look at OO” responses etc. I am looking everywhere, I can assure you. Well...everywhere that has a DFW base and loosely places that have IAH bases (which is closer to a 3 hour drive and not ideal) I apologize for the huge list of question.
TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY? [/QUOTE]
Don’t come here. Things are really bad atm. You won’t be able to guarantee DFW, especially with the LGA push right now.
Yes, you will be forced to upgrade.
2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?
No telling really. Huge push for increased flying out of the north east on the 145. Could be longer than normal.
3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)
Unless OSO line holders are done when done. You can deny a JM but better have a good reason. Yes you can be reassigned by phone.
4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?
Yes. Not often. Nope, you bid each night. Yes. Think so? Check HI3 and HI6.
5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.
Line. Yes there is a window.
6. Seat lock - I would plan to bid whatever got me into DFW fastest.....if the landscape changed, how long are you locked into the 145 or 175 etc?
As FO until upgrade. Captain 2 years.
7. Any insight into company shenanigans in regards to going into SWAP every day so as not to have to follow the contract, working with crews on adjusting fuel/adjusting routes in weather, excessive MELs, etc. XJT was pretty good about all these items except for the daily SWAP? (Holy run-on...) one thing I appreciated about XJT was the CPO. Never gave us any grief about bereavement, fatigue, sick etc. (not that those all applied to me, I’m just speaking in general)
CPO is a crap shoot. Sometimes great, sometimes would watch you burn. Really comes down to personal experience. Fuel generally isn’t an issue, if you need it ask. If you are sick, call sick. Don’t abuse and you will be fine. Not sure what you mean by SWAP. Maintenance is actually pretty good.
8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?
DH is .75 if I remember. Cancel is full pay. Avg line is about 73 hours or so. Higher hours typically go more senior. There are usually a handful of 85 hour lines. Not many, lots of low 70’s.
Once again, I appreciate everyone’s help with noob question ON TOP of everything else you are dealing with. I am happy to recieve (and fully expect) the “dont come here” and “look at OO” responses etc. I am looking everywhere, I can assure you. Well...everywhere that has a DFW base and loosely places that have IAH bases (which is closer to a 3 hour drive and not ideal) I apologize for the huge list of question.
TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY? [/QUOTE]
Don’t come here. Things are really bad atm. You won’t be able to guarantee DFW, especially with the LGA push right now.
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,279
1. Forced upgrade - Assuming I bid/recieve the 145 (which is what I have the most time in), will I be forced into upgrade? I would certainly like to fly as an FO first and learn the company flight profiles, operational differences etc. (XJT FMS was all honeywell, for example) but it sounds like that might not be up to me?
Yes, you will be forced to upgrade.
Good to know. Thanks again.
2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?
No telling really. Huge push for increased flying out of the north east on the 145. Could be longer than normal.
I kind of expect that. Hate to hear it but it is what it is!
3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)
Unless OSO line holders are done when done. You can deny a JM but better have a good reason. Yes you can be reassigned by phone.
so you have to be phone available during trips, even as a line holder?
4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?
Yes. Not often. Nope, you bid each night. Yes. Think so? Check HI3 and HI6.
5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.
Line. Yes there is a window.
thanks
6. Seat lock - I would plan to bid whatever got me into DFW fastest.....if the landscape changed, how long are you locked into the 145 or 175 etc?
As FO until upgrade. Captain 2 years.
thats not too bad
7. Any insight into company shenanigans in regards to going into SWAP every day so as not to have to follow the contract, working with crews on adjusting fuel/adjusting routes in weather, excessive MELs, etc. XJT was pretty good about all these items except for the daily SWAP? (Holy run-on...) one thing I appreciated about XJT was the CPO. Never gave us any grief about bereavement, fatigue, sick etc. (not that those all applied to me, I’m just speaking in general)
CPO is a crap shoot. Sometimes great, sometimes would watch you burn. Really comes down to personal experience. Fuel generally isn’t an issue, if you need it ask. If you are sick, call sick. Don’t abuse and you will be fine. Not sure what you mean by SWAP. Maintenance is actually pretty good.
SWAP was our "severe weather action plan" it basically meant that if an eskimo farts in alaska, they go into weather related shenanigans and can circumvent portions of the contract as it relates to scheduling and release etc. The term "weaponized swap" gained some traction.
8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?
DH is .75 if I remember. Cancel is full pay. Avg line is about 73 hours or so. Higher hours typically go more senior. There are usually a handful of 85 hour lines. Not many, lots of low 70’s.
yikes. thats rough. low 70's on a 12-day off line???
Once again, I appreciate everyone’s help with noob question ON TOP of everything else you are dealing with. I am happy to recieve (and fully expect) the “dont come here” and “look at OO” responses etc. I am looking everywhere, I can assure you. Well...everywhere that has a DFW base and loosely places that have IAH bases (which is closer to a 3 hour drive and not ideal) I apologize for the huge list of question.
TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY?
Yes, you will be forced to upgrade.
Good to know. Thanks again.
2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?
No telling really. Huge push for increased flying out of the north east on the 145. Could be longer than normal.
I kind of expect that. Hate to hear it but it is what it is!
3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)
Unless OSO line holders are done when done. You can deny a JM but better have a good reason. Yes you can be reassigned by phone.
so you have to be phone available during trips, even as a line holder?
4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?
Yes. Not often. Nope, you bid each night. Yes. Think so? Check HI3 and HI6.
5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.
Line. Yes there is a window.
thanks
6. Seat lock - I would plan to bid whatever got me into DFW fastest.....if the landscape changed, how long are you locked into the 145 or 175 etc?
As FO until upgrade. Captain 2 years.
thats not too bad
7. Any insight into company shenanigans in regards to going into SWAP every day so as not to have to follow the contract, working with crews on adjusting fuel/adjusting routes in weather, excessive MELs, etc. XJT was pretty good about all these items except for the daily SWAP? (Holy run-on...) one thing I appreciated about XJT was the CPO. Never gave us any grief about bereavement, fatigue, sick etc. (not that those all applied to me, I’m just speaking in general)
CPO is a crap shoot. Sometimes great, sometimes would watch you burn. Really comes down to personal experience. Fuel generally isn’t an issue, if you need it ask. If you are sick, call sick. Don’t abuse and you will be fine. Not sure what you mean by SWAP. Maintenance is actually pretty good.
SWAP was our "severe weather action plan" it basically meant that if an eskimo farts in alaska, they go into weather related shenanigans and can circumvent portions of the contract as it relates to scheduling and release etc. The term "weaponized swap" gained some traction.
8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?
DH is .75 if I remember. Cancel is full pay. Avg line is about 73 hours or so. Higher hours typically go more senior. There are usually a handful of 85 hour lines. Not many, lots of low 70’s.
yikes. thats rough. low 70's on a 12-day off line???
Once again, I appreciate everyone’s help with noob question ON TOP of everything else you are dealing with. I am happy to recieve (and fully expect) the “dont come here” and “look at OO” responses etc. I am looking everywhere, I can assure you. Well...everywhere that has a DFW base and loosely places that have IAH bases (which is closer to a 3 hour drive and not ideal) I apologize for the huge list of question.
TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY?
#5
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,199
OP... I'm sorry bro, you're this guy
Courtesy of Cyio
Courtesy of Cyio
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
So a couple things to answer your questions. No pilot is required to answer their cell phone while at the airport. Full stop. No exceptions. Line holders or reserve included. We have airport standby and they have phones in the crew room but if you don’t want to hang out there then the cell phone is an option. We have “email” we have to check every day on duty. Pilots on RAP have to return calls within 15 minutes.
Your SWAP is what we would call “schedule integrity”. We have a clause where they can reassign us for any reason. It still has to finish with in 3 hours of the original sequence. We have OSO Off Schedule Opperations where if your last flight cancels then they can make you stay and wait for reassignment for four hours or the scheduled end of duty which ever is earlier.
Your SWAP is what we would call “schedule integrity”. We have a clause where they can reassign us for any reason. It still has to finish with in 3 hours of the original sequence. We have OSO Off Schedule Opperations where if your last flight cancels then they can make you stay and wait for reassignment for four hours or the scheduled end of duty which ever is earlier.
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,789
So a couple things to answer your questions. No pilot is required to answer their cell phone while at the airport. Full stop. No exceptions. Line holders or reserve included. We have airport standby and they have phones in the crew room but if you don’t want to hang out there then the cell phone is an option. We have “email” we have to check every day on duty. Pilots on RAP have to return calls within 15 minutes.
Your SWAP is what we would call “schedule integrity”. We have a clause where they can reassign us for any reason. It still has to finish with in 3 hours of the original sequence. We have OSO Off Schedule Opperations where if your last flight cancels then they can make you stay and wait for reassignment for four hours or the scheduled end of duty which ever is earlier.
Your SWAP is what we would call “schedule integrity”. We have a clause where they can reassign us for any reason. It still has to finish with in 3 hours of the original sequence. We have OSO Off Schedule Opperations where if your last flight cancels then they can make you stay and wait for reassignment for four hours or the scheduled end of duty which ever is earlier.
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,279
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post