Some practical Envoy questions
06-29-2019, 06:49 AM
#11
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,199
Ha fair enough. I'll bet you sign up in the end, though, lol.. Living in base does make one overlook a lot. Hope you get DFW right away and hope they get things turned around over there! Welcome back to the show, btw! Desk jobs suck!
06-29-2019, 11:23 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Position: Flying with my right hand again
Posts: 199
1. Forced upgrade - Assuming I bid/recieve the 145 (which is what I have the most time in), will I be forced into upgrade?
2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?
3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)
4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?
5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.
8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?
TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY?
2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?
3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)
4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?
5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.
8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?
TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY?
2. Thanks to constant FOs displacing CAs at upgrade, the junior DFW CA is looking more like Jan 18 according to our latest flow plan and seniority list.
3. Junior manning is pretty minimal because we have a crap-ton of reserves. approximately 50 per seat in each base.
4. By default, you start your reserve string with 2 hour callout (3 hour in LGA) starting at 4 am. At 5pm CST the day prior, you get your actual assignment for the next day. If you are senior on the reserve list, you might be able to get a same-day-commutable late-start flight or airport appreciation assignment.
Note: the low seniority upgrades have slowed to a relative trickle with the cancellation of the DEC program. It will take a while to get a significant number of CAs below you.
5. Line bidding, even for reserve days. There is a line improvement window, but it only applies to lineholders, so you won't be able to enjoy it for at least 2 years. As a reserve, you can request swapping days, but it will likely be "denied due to staffing". If it is approved, it probably won't be approved until the day prior to the requested swap.
8. Soft pay... the only thing you can really do to improve your pay above min guarantee is to pick up OT on your day off. Might be doable if you live in DFW (hey, you'll be at the airport after commuting home on your day off), but the pickings get slim and do you really want to pick up a Waco or Wichita falls turn or overnight?
TL;DR - don't come here. Look at OO. At least they will credit your previous 121 time for pay purposes.
06-30-2019, 07:42 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Fetal
Posts: 226
06-30-2019, 11:19 AM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 81
1. Are you required to answer your phone or return any calls on a DFP?
No.
2. If you're on standby until 11pm and it's 11:01PM but there's still a few delayed flights not off, can you leave or must you call to be released?
Technically the contract states you have to call to be released from standby, almost nobody ever does that.
No.
2. If you're on standby until 11pm and it's 11:01PM but there's still a few delayed flights not off, can you leave or must you call to be released?
Technically the contract states you have to call to be released from standby, almost nobody ever does that.
06-30-2019, 12:02 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Resigned
Posts: 1,547
Warning fellow reserve scum: scheduling interprets “45 mins after the end of your standby assignment” to mean the departure board says that at the moment it is assigned, when it subsequently delays 2 more hours and you call and tell them, scheduling feels you are on the hook until you time out. Have fun doing all night weather extravaganzas for 14 hours, remember to bang out fatigued when you can’t handle it anymore, and never bid standby.
06-30-2019, 12:29 PM
#17
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
Will they try and call you at 11:05p to work a flight that is delayed until 11:40p? Who knows, perhaps they will since you never called to get released. Regardless they can’t assign you a flight that’s leaves any later than 45 minutes beyond the end of your standby shift.
06-30-2019, 01:38 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: 787
Posts: 470
12.F.1.d is a good thing to keep in mind during IROPS. It has saved me before when the plane was not in Dallas, but scheduled to leave just at the end of my standby shift...dispatch did not want to tail swap, so off I went.
I have heard you are supposed to call CS to get released at the end of SBY, but like another poster said...no one does, and CS does not expect it.
If they call after your standby expires, just let it go to VM, and they will have to leave you a VM with the current time. Just don’t call back or check your HI2/HI3 any more that day.
I have heard you are supposed to call CS to get released at the end of SBY, but like another poster said...no one does, and CS does not expect it.
If they call after your standby expires, just let it go to VM, and they will have to leave you a VM with the current time. Just don’t call back or check your HI2/HI3 any more that day.
06-30-2019, 05:11 PM
#20
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
What it means is that you can't be released to RAP from Standby.
It means you can be released by contacting CS.
You can call at noon if you want - they will often release you if you are not the most junior pilot after S2 shows up, and the day isn't a total clusterf. But they can't say "ok you are good to go" and leave you on RAP.
The whole premise of 117 and duty regs is, that your duty time is preassigned and your rest is prospective. If you are assigned duty from x to y, there's nothing that says you need to be "released" from that duty. You are released when clock hits y, unless someone calls you and tells you otherwise.
The contract says you may be assigned to be on ready reserve for up to eight hours. After 8 hours, your day is over.
12.F.3 does not mean you have to call to get released.
Someone who knows the history of the contract might know better why they worded it that way, but since it's never used nor abused, I don't think anyone really cares.
But there's no reasonable interpretation that it says you HAVE to call to get released, it just doesn't read that way. "Remainder of the day" - your day ends when your duty ends.
It means you can be released by contacting CS.
You can call at noon if you want - they will often release you if you are not the most junior pilot after S2 shows up, and the day isn't a total clusterf. But they can't say "ok you are good to go" and leave you on RAP.
The whole premise of 117 and duty regs is, that your duty time is preassigned and your rest is prospective. If you are assigned duty from x to y, there's nothing that says you need to be "released" from that duty. You are released when clock hits y, unless someone calls you and tells you otherwise.
The contract says you may be assigned to be on ready reserve for up to eight hours. After 8 hours, your day is over.
12.F.3 does not mean you have to call to get released.
Someone who knows the history of the contract might know better why they worded it that way, but since it's never used nor abused, I don't think anyone really cares.
But there's no reasonable interpretation that it says you HAVE to call to get released, it just doesn't read that way. "Remainder of the day" - your day ends when your duty ends.
Last edited by dera; 06-30-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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