Envoy 2019
11-28-2019, 03:31 PM
#2121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 262
The OPs point was being at a wholly owned, maybe, helps being hired as OTS at AA, before the flow. And that's simply not the case. AA is very reluctant to cannibalize its cheap pilot labor flying AA routes. So, as you said, only a handful get lucky, and from my experience, I've only known one CA get through the front door and that was because he checked all the boxes, military, glowing recommendations within AA, etc. Most everyone else is hoping for about 7-8 year wait, as long as AA is filling classes consistently during those years. In the meantime, you've got poor quality of life and multi- leg days for very little credit, and a management that......
11-28-2019, 04:38 PM
#2123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
On the 175 you can if you get lucky with your timing and spend minimal time on reserve. It's only 83 hours a month block. It's not hard to average that as a lineholder if you want.
We are so overstaffed right now with 175 FOs that a new hire probably wont be able to do that. Reserve times are much longer now than a year ago.
We are so overstaffed right now with 175 FOs that a new hire probably wont be able to do that. Reserve times are much longer now than a year ago.
AND if you did do that on the 175 that quickly, you would just be displaced to captain on the 145.
11-28-2019, 04:44 PM
#2124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
There are a very few that get hired outside the flow, but as others have pointed out, they are few and far between and are the hustlers that could have been hired elsewhere as well.
11-28-2019, 05:03 PM
#2125
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
New hire won't be able to do it right now. The reserve times are so long given the crazy overstaffing. But if you get lucky and get off reserve in a month, it can be done.
And yes, you will get the 145.
11-28-2019, 07:50 PM
#2126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 413
11-29-2019, 03:56 AM
#2128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: 787
Posts: 470
His tone does frustrate me, but also the few times I have asked to drop a last turn of a trip (captain), he has (begrudgingly) agreed.
I will say, and YMMV, but having worked at another regional (L-XJT), I think our CS are way more professional, understanding, and tend to give us the benefit of the doubt. They operate in the same confines that we are forced to, but I also feel they try to help where they can.
I will say, and YMMV, but having worked at another regional (L-XJT), I think our CS are way more professional, understanding, and tend to give us the benefit of the doubt. They operate in the same confines that we are forced to, but I also feel they try to help where they can.
11-29-2019, 04:00 AM
#2129
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 78
The reason we exist is because we are the outsourced cheap labor. That is it. And the promise of a flow keeps labor costs even lower when compared to most other regionals' overall pay credit.
And to add to that, the mgmt will be able to use the flow as a disciplining tool in the near future, because they can withhold your flow arbitrarily for any infraction via a step letter in your file.
11-29-2019, 06:34 AM
#2130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,789
This is absolutely not true, and even logically it's faulty. If AA was truly concerned about losing WO pilots to UAL, Delta, they could easily resolve that by filling 100% of its classes with WO pilots. But, they don't, regardless if Envoy mgmt wanted to hold you back. Flow is a recruiting gimmick that fills envoy classes while keeping work rules cheap for the company, hence AA.
The reason we exist is because we are the outsourced cheap labor. That is it. And the promise of a flow keeps labor costs even lower when compared to most other regionals' overall pay credit.
And to add to that, the mgmt will be able to use the flow as a disciplining tool in the near future, because they can withhold your flow arbitrarily for any infraction via a step letter in your file.
The reason we exist is because we are the outsourced cheap labor. That is it. And the promise of a flow keeps labor costs even lower when compared to most other regionals' overall pay credit.
And to add to that, the mgmt will be able to use the flow as a disciplining tool in the near future, because they can withhold your flow arbitrarily for any infraction via a step letter in your file.
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