Current Envoy Facts
05-10-2018, 09:01 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 294
Get used to new hires benefitting while those already here realize none of the gains. Pretty soon those guys with the positive space to/from NY and the unlimited hotels will inevitably complain about it and then you'll find yourself reminding them that "the guys who got the flush before the LOA" never had that little benefit.
But then watch the same thing happen over and over and over for years, and it will start to become a bit tedious when they try to remind you that "times are different" and just because they had better timing than you, that doesn't give you the right to remind them of how good they have it compared to you. Then maybe they'll casually suggest they start their own union once they "have the numbers".
If there's one thing I think everyone is missing it's this. PPs don't want the newer guys to go through the same struggles as they went through. And even though it gets a bit annoying when people complain about having to be on reserve for a few months, everyone's situation is relative. It would be strange if they didn't complain. It's just human nature. The biggest issue is when the newer guys complain about the PPs finally actually benefiting from something, when they have no knowledge of, or seemingly no interest in, understanding the history of this place since the bankruptcy and merge.
When the MEC (elected by the PPs) voted in the pay structure that would make us competitive in terms of attracting new hires, it created an environment where movement here would skyrocket. And it did. Everything improved dramatically from time on reserve, time to hold desired base and/or equipment, upgrade time, and even flow time. The reality is that it took the PPs 6 or 7 years to realize any of these improvements (most of which were reserved for new hires), yet said new hires benefited day 1 of being on property.
No one should be upset that timing has worked out great so far for those just recently hired. That's just the way this industry is. But the new guys should at the very least understand their audience. When guys had to deal with being furloughed, when time to flow was over 15 years, and upgrade time was around 11 years, the last thing the PPs would do is complain to their CAs about FO reserve. Or that after 3 years they should be upgrading, etc.
TLDR: just as the PPs would complain about the gummers/lifers years ago, the newer guys will complain about the PPs. And the newer guys will eventually complain about the even newer guys. And vice versa all around. Just remember, those who have been here the longest have the most experience (not just flying here, but with management, contracts, union stuff, etc). I won't speak for all PPs, but I think most would just like it if more new guys would seem to realize that and tailor their interactions accordingly.
But then watch the same thing happen over and over and over for years, and it will start to become a bit tedious when they try to remind you that "times are different" and just because they had better timing than you, that doesn't give you the right to remind them of how good they have it compared to you. Then maybe they'll casually suggest they start their own union once they "have the numbers".
If there's one thing I think everyone is missing it's this. PPs don't want the newer guys to go through the same struggles as they went through. And even though it gets a bit annoying when people complain about having to be on reserve for a few months, everyone's situation is relative. It would be strange if they didn't complain. It's just human nature. The biggest issue is when the newer guys complain about the PPs finally actually benefiting from something, when they have no knowledge of, or seemingly no interest in, understanding the history of this place since the bankruptcy and merge.
When the MEC (elected by the PPs) voted in the pay structure that would make us competitive in terms of attracting new hires, it created an environment where movement here would skyrocket. And it did. Everything improved dramatically from time on reserve, time to hold desired base and/or equipment, upgrade time, and even flow time. The reality is that it took the PPs 6 or 7 years to realize any of these improvements (most of which were reserved for new hires), yet said new hires benefited day 1 of being on property.
No one should be upset that timing has worked out great so far for those just recently hired. That's just the way this industry is. But the new guys should at the very least understand their audience. When guys had to deal with being furloughed, when time to flow was over 15 years, and upgrade time was around 11 years, the last thing the PPs would do is complain to their CAs about FO reserve. Or that after 3 years they should be upgrading, etc.
TLDR: just as the PPs would complain about the gummers/lifers years ago, the newer guys will complain about the PPs. And the newer guys will eventually complain about the even newer guys. And vice versa all around. Just remember, those who have been here the longest have the most experience (not just flying here, but with management, contracts, union stuff, etc). I won't speak for all PPs, but I think most would just like it if more new guys would seem to realize that and tailor their interactions accordingly.
05-10-2018, 05:50 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 92
The effective outcome is that envoy pilots will make up %50 of AA newhires up to 29 a month.
If AA hires 20, we send 10
If AA hires 100, we send 29
The only time we're likely to see more is when they send the 18 pilots from the makeup group. 9 by April 2020 and 9 more by the end of the PP flow.
What your post should say is: %50 of AA newhires or 29 per month, whichever is less. Unless they company decides to send more. (which, let's be honest, they won't)
05-10-2018, 08:35 PM
#25
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 43
Updated post
UPDATED POST :
Flowthrough wording
FLEET : slight growth in 2018 and 2019 (*)
CRJ 700 : 22
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, by the end of 2019
EMB 140/145 : 100+
Previously placed in storage aircrafts to be added throughout the first half of 2018. No official number
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019.
About 60 options left. No official decision yet.
*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.
BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases
PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 6%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employee’ spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.
UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancy” LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 6/2016
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 4/2015
EMB 175 ORD: 4/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017
SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesn’t change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.
FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.
Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.
......... UPDATED POST .........
......flowthrough wording.......
Flowthrough wording
FLEET : slight growth in 2018 and 2019 (*)
CRJ 700 : 22
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, by the end of 2019
EMB 140/145 : 100+
Previously placed in storage aircrafts to be added throughout the first half of 2018. No official number
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019.
About 60 options left. No official decision yet.
*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.
BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases
PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 6%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employee’ spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.
UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancy” LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 6/2016
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 4/2015
EMB 175 ORD: 4/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017
SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesn’t change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.
FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.
Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.
......... UPDATED POST .........
......flowthrough wording.......
05-10-2018, 08:41 PM
#26
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 43
Updated post
UPDATED POST :
Flowthrough wording
FLEET : slight growth in 2018 and 2019 (*)
CRJ 700 : 22
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, by the end of 2019
EMB 140/145 : 100+
Previously placed in storage aircrafts to be added throughout the first half of 2018. No official number
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019.
About 60 options left. No official decision yet.
*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.
BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases
PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 6%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employee’ spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.
UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancy” LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 6/2016
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 4/2015
EMB 175 ORD: 4/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017
SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesn’t change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.
FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.
Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.
......... UPDATED POST .........
......flowthrough wording.......
Flowthrough wording
FLEET : slight growth in 2018 and 2019 (*)
CRJ 700 : 22
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, by the end of 2019
EMB 140/145 : 100+
Previously placed in storage aircrafts to be added throughout the first half of 2018. No official number
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019.
About 60 options left. No official decision yet.
*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.
BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases
PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 6%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employee’ spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.
UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancy” LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 6/2016
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 4/2015
EMB 175 ORD: 4/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017
SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesn’t change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.
FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.
Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.
......... UPDATED POST .........
......flowthrough wording.......
05-13-2018, 10:18 AM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 26
Training Timelines
I understand this stuff changes a lot, but any odds of getting the training timelines as they stand? Haven't seen anything posted recently about it. Current lag between finishing Coast, Indoc, etc. Potential RTP new hires that are weighing regional options are looking at stuff like this to plan on how long they can expect to go without a paycheck.
05-17-2018, 10:30 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Mil IP/EP
Posts: 108
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but any rough ideas re: time to hold MIA as an FO, and is it trending more junior, senior, or stable? Latest number I could find was 7 months but that was someone's experience last year. Thanks!
05-17-2018, 11:10 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Posts: 194
For people interested in DFW EMJ the junior pilot is a Dec 2017 hire with a June 1st transfer date. DFW E75 is even less but it's really hard to get unless you're a cadet or fairly senior in your class.
05-17-2018, 09:30 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,360
If you get 175 at Indoc, what the best way to go about commuting from MIA to your base? I know AA has a tons of flights, but it also seems that getting on AA as a non rev is pretty difficult at MIA. Anyone has insight on this? Thanks!
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