Pat2389

I could be wrong. But why don’t we put all these questions in the same thread?

Been lurking on every thread and just want to give my piece.

Flows this month were hired in May 2006. That’s an 11-12 year flow.

The pilot group shrunk, and that’s when I got in, (05/2016). I think there’s hope for guys hired when I was to survive and flow in 5-6 years from our date of hire.

Hiring exploded like crazy after that and since I was hired less than 2 years ago, the pilot group has DOUBLED!

The flow is, in fact now, 10+ years. No need to start new threads asking if this is true. Based on the math, anyone hired today is looking at 10+ years for flow. I myself think the majors will hire so much it doesn’t matter, but if you want my opinion on a non interview flow, that’s it.

*IN MY HUMBLE OPINION*
Nobody should come here as a new hire. The HVA program has a great bonus, hard to turn down for someone with flight school debt, and you can’t blame anyone for taking a lump sum. That money goes a long way and how dare that dummy call HVA guys “scabs” (idiot).

However, HVA will take that money and spend a long time at the bottom of the CA seniority list. If you live in domicile, then not too bad. Unfortunately most are headed to LGA.

Also, according to our most recent union update, management has zero interest in compensating the pilots already on property, despite endeavor and republics new contracts. Why should they? New hires are flooding the school house. Until the new hire classes hit single digits or we ACT instead of ***** on forums, don’t expect any changes.

If I hit 1500 hours I would go to Endeavor. 10+ year flow is real and NOT a recruitment tool anymore. You’re gonna be commuting to those domiciles anyways, and I would imagine you can be hired long before the 10 year flow comes to fruition for yourself.

Azorian

As an HVA guy myself, the more i research, the more i discuss and read, the more it just isnt worth it.

i dont need the $45K

it would be nice to have... but is it enough to entice a guy in my shoes to be the bottom b*tch boy in LGA for anywhere from 4 months (according to interview Koolaid) all the way to 2 years (depending on how you work the math in a worst case scenario)

no, frankly its really not. unless your goal is to come to Envoy and build 1,000 hours PIC and bounce. but how long is that going to take at 30+/- hours a month on reserve? 2 years?

in response to the flow. i mean yeah thats nice. if your a 25 year old kid fresh out of Spartan and you somehow have the hours to hire. hell yeah, i think it could be a good time to get in with a place like Envoy for that reason alone you could be looking at an AA seat before you were 35 years old. provided of course you survive 10 years at a regional.

on another note, Envoy has contract negotiations when? 2020? i think thats what i saw - anyhow if thats correct i can fully see a concession to the flow. they are going to ask to drop the monthly flow to a lower number. look, they are already slowing the flow due to "operational necessity" so im just throwing numbers out there but lets say the flow agreement is for 25% of all AA new meat is flow guys out of Envoy if hired after 12/14 ( i think thats correct)... so they are probably going to want to drop that to 15% or maybe 20% with the next negotiation.

*** i dont even have a class date so anyone feel free to jump in and tell me if im off base. but i think i have a better than average understanding of whats going on over on Regency Blvd

Azorian

addendum... cadet program guys, do they get a seniority number on class date or earlier?

they would be something else to consider, i know they bid before everyone else on class date

if they get a seniority number held for them and your coming to envoy as a new hire... thats going to be a number of people already in line ahead of ya if thats the case

35Right

Cadets get seniority on first day of class, but still ahead of everyone in that class.

bourbon scamp

Pilot seniority is date of class, but they have company seniority based on date of hire as a cadet (vacation, benefits, etc).

DanRoman

You know it just dawned on me how bad that is for a HVA. Let’s say you’re a guy in his early to mid 30’s coming to Envoy as a HVA who will wait for the flow. Not only do you have all the FO’s on property continually bumping you down as they upgrade, you also get to look forward to watching those cadets in their early 20’s bumping you down when they upgrade and (assuming everyone flows) remaining senior to you the rest of your career. Think about it...if you are of such high value because of your experience, why then are you forcibly junior to all the cadets in your class with zero 121 experience?

Azorian

^ what he said

havick206

To be fair, the cadets don’t get a $45k signing bonus. Also the cadet locked into Envoy and interviewed long before before a HVA (street CA) decided to jump ship or come out of 121 retirement.

Whiskey4

Remember, AA reshuffles new hires by age. So, if a Cadet was ahead of you in seniority when flowing he will bid behind you if in the same AA class (which determines base, equipment, and training start date...which will likely determine final AA seniority date).

DanRoman

Fair point, I hadn’t considered that.