Originally Posted by wiz5422

Most new hires need to stop b!tch!ng so much. Yes QOL is down, but it has been way worse. You all came in with big sign on bonuses, fast movement and instant upgrades to CA pay scales.

You all know or should of known how the aviation industry works.....it changes on a dime, sometimes for good sometimes for bad. Most pilots have to sit reserve once, most pilots will have to commute once, most pilots will be displaced at least once in their airline career. Deal with it or get out.

Most of You have it better now then most of your CAs did a few years back. Stop b!tch!ng, and follow the contract, don't pick up open time, don't go above and beyond and keep emailing your union reps to help change the things that need to be changed.

Originally Posted by Pedro4President

Lol. I'm not one of those pilots that think what I say on here has any impact on negotiations. Also, we have pushed for higher wages, better schedule, and better working environment BEFORE Endeavor got their increase. Endeavor passing their TA gives us perceived hope/momentum in finally getting a more decent wage.

Originally Posted by Space Ranger

Endeavor guy here..been lurkin on this thread for a bit to get an idea of why morale would be low at a place with a flow. Also considering Endeavor and Envoy are arguably the top two regionals, albeit for obviously different reasons. First let me say that I hope our TA brings continued momentum to the pilot groups of all regionals who have busted their asses through some seriously tough times and are due what they're worth. That being said, as an outsider, the "flow" just seems to be smoke and mirrors that management plays with the pilot group to justify treating their employees like crap. From the guys I know that work there, QOL, work rules, schedules, and pay are far below what they should be, but its justified because of the "flow".

Do y'all have something written into your contract stating that the flow can't be discontinued, metered, or reversed, due to "company need"or some other lawyer speak line of BS? Who's to say the flow doesn't go away at the next economic downturn? If thats the case, the flow seems practically worthless. Ok, maybe not worthless, but close enough. What are the current flow numbers for a new hire? 10 years or something? Take a beating for 10 years but its okay because there is a flow?

It would seem as an outsider that the flow is only keeping the koolaid drinking portion of the pilot group happy, where as the guys that can do basic math could see that 2+2 doesn't really add up?

Not trolling here, genuinely curious.

Originally Posted by Pedro4President

Lol. I’m not one of those pilots that think what I say on here has any impact on negotiations. Also, we have pushed for higher wages, better schedule, and better working environment BEFORE Endeavor got their increase. Endeavor passing their TA gives us perceived hope/momentum in finally getting a more decent wage.

Originally Posted by HoustonPilot

So because you had it bad we should just shut up YES and take it NO (what we consider to be out of line)? People ***** just to do it. Sometimes it helps to vent and that's what 80% of this forum is.

I'm glad the new hires get/got all of the money and incentives because it means this industry is changing, but not fast enough. The companies need to keep up instead of reacting. Treat us fair and pay us what we are worth.

Originally Posted by Truthanator

Those complaining the most and the loudest are from the last couple of generations where entitlement reigns. You expect to be rewarded without crawling through a little mud. Suck it up a little.
You should be trying to improve it, but most of you are going about it in a whiny, disrespectful, annoying way. It's also more visible due to social media.

Originally Posted by cr700

I thought you guys were against "negotiating in public" but I've been seeing a lot of it on here.

Suddenly just because Endeavor gives pay raises, everybody here thinks they are immediately entitles as well. You have to remember the value of what we do have that Endeavor does not. Flow.

Originally Posted by ag386

People flowing today are about 12 years seniority. Lots of BS from recruiters and salesmen in the past selling a 5 or 6 year flow. All that matters is what is happening currently and that's a 12 year flow.

Originally Posted by TransWorld

Was talking with one of those 12 year seniority CA a couple of months ago. He was scheduled to flow this month. He reminded me for the few years after him there were very few hires. As a Protected Pilot, he said by the time the last PP flowed they should have about 8 years seniority.

He reminded me just a few years ago, when flows of the 824 pilots were starting the flows had 25 years of seniority. AA was not hiring for that lost decade.

Originally Posted by HoustonPilot

So because you had it bad we should just shut up and take it (what we consider to be out of line)? People ***** just to do it. Sometimes it helps to vent and that's what 80% of this forum is.

I'm glad the new hires get/got all of the money and incentives because it means this industry is changing, but not fast enough. The companies need to keep up instead of reacting. Treat us fair and pay us what we are worth.