Cyio

I would say that it falls under the lost flying rules just as if you misconnected or had maintenance issues. You were assigned flying and it was removed, hence your hotel is covered.

Jamesthunder

I know I wouldn't answer. Although I'd probably listen to the voicemail. I don't know how to get people's numbers though.

KodiakRS

Oh boy has there been a ton of incorrect information given out over the past few posts. Looks like it's time to bust out the old contract and write a wall of text.

Letter 13-13 B.3:

"The lineholder or reserve pilot on a day(s) off who appropriates a reserve pilot's sequence shall be paid above guarantee for the portion operated but shall not receive the open time premium for such flying."

Short version: appropriated flying is paid at %100. It is not OT and is not paid at %150.

Your statement is not correct. There are a number of scenarios in which you do not get a hotel in base. (not counting commuter hotels). See below for more information.

A wise question indeed. CBA section 11 E.1.d states "A pilot whose assignment normally provides for a hotel room will receive a hotel room in domicile (upon request) if any irregularity causes the pilot to overnight in domicile."

The critical part that most people miss is "A pilot whose assignment..." meaning that if you trade a trip, call in sick, miss a commute ect. you aren't owed a hotel because that trip is no longer "your assignment." Not understanding this is where the myth believed by pedro4pres and many others comes from. "If you EVER lose a hotel then you are always protected and they will provide you one."

So how does this apply to appropriated flying? Well it's a bit awkward. In practice scheduling will only give out hotel rooms to pilots who's flying has been appropriated after they have signed in for the sequence in question. If the overnight is appropriated prior to sign in the reserve pilot will be placed on a rap in accordance with letter 13-13 and will not receive a hotel room in base. (you can still request a commuter hotel). I confirmed this interpretation by calling the hotel desk a few hours ago and asking them. They gave me this same interpretation without me mentioning it first so it's clearly how they think the system works. It seems ripe for a grievance to me but I'm halfway out the door already and wouldn't be around to follow it through.

It's also worth noting that what's said in the CBA is only slightly more important than what's not. Section 11 goes out of it's way to mention that a pilot displaced for IOE will receive hotel rooms in base but letter 13-13 does not. By including that in certain places but omitting it in others there's an implication that the guarantee of a hotel room does not exist.

Since a bunch of people have asked this: Scheduling and the CPO will not give out other employees personal information, including phone numbers, for obvious privacy reasons. They can however relay a number to the other pilot for you. Generally most people won't pick up but will listen to the voicemail and return the call. If they don't call back within 15 minutes or so I'd say you've fulfilled your obligation to ask them and can appropriate guilt free.

This is also a great way to get a hold of a pilot who just got off of an airplane and forgot their ipad, forgot to sign the AML, ect.

1) See above

2) There's a lot of stuff in the contract that doesn't get used because the negative ramifications out weigh the consequences. We were supposed to get PBS after the 40th (41st?) 175 but the company did the equivalent of calling the union and realizing that "appropriating" our line bidding was a bad idea.

3) There are myriad of "dick punch" moves you can pull on other pilots including not confirming and no call appropriating. Remember what's not in a contract can be as important as what is in a contract. Remember the trackback grievance? That's now a judge certified loophole that the company has zero problem using all the time.

Ya might want to do a quick check on your attitude there buddy. This type of disregard for a fellow pilot is responsible for so many of our problems today. Scope, b-scales, the PSA contract, whipsaw, all of it is because a group decided that their own personal well being was more important than the health of the profession as a whole. Sure appropriating a reserve trip is a drop in the bucket compared to those things but it goes a long way to showing your character in an industry where a lot of us have chips on our shoulder and looong memories.

highfarfast

KodiacRS should refer to Letter 16-02.

Also, anyone who does not get a hotel room after losing flying due to appropriation should be contacting a union rep.

KodiakRS

Yep, looks like I missed that. For those curious, 16-02 amends 13-13 so that appropriated flying is paid at the OT or crit coverage as appropriate.

Edit: You can contact your union rep and as I mentioned it's ripe for a grievance but the current policy from crew scheduling is that if your flying is appropriated prior to beginning the sequence and you're put back on a rap you don't get a room. Expect to "fly it and grieve it."

Weekendwarrior2

You’re missing the point that there is no obligation to ask the other pilot. I’m not spending ten minutes on hold to get in touch with scheduling to relay my number to the other pilot to ask if I can appropriate his trip nor should anyone. Don’t want flying appropriated? Put yourself on the turnback list.

havick206

I’m sorru but your simply full of it. You’re just making up BS rules.

The contract is the contract which was voted upon by the pilots. Ie we agree that appropriated flying is good to go.

I notice you glossed over the rest of my post and just cherry picked one line to suit yourself.

I’ve never personally appropriated flying, that being said your own attitude sucks forcing some BS rule on pilots.

I notice you haven’t got on your high horse about those pilots that literally screw around the next pilots that don’t call to confirm a morning assignment (no I’m not on reserve so doesn’t affect me).

KodiakRS

Good for you. I'm still going to do it. I'm not a fan of screwing commuters out of overnights or making it home on the end of a set of RSV days just so I can make a few bucks.

Pedro4President

Lol

I see how you are getting confused. It is understandable seeing how convoluted our contract is and how you are new and haven't lived through the changes.

Hotel protection- 11 E 1d is for line holders and reserve pilots. It is specifically referring to scheduling changes. I'm pretty sure it's obvious that it doesn't cover trip trades and sick calls. It does cover any circumstances outside the pilots control. If you aren't getting the overnight once it has been appropriated then you need to contact the union. If you get awarded a four day trip that gets taken away for IOE line checks miss connection appropriated flying etc then you are due a hotel for all three nights.

It was all explained in a union email a couple years ago.

KodiakRS

Any chance you can find that union e-mail? There seems to be some disagreement between them and the people working the hotel desk.