Endeavor and Republic?
12-30-2015, 09:35 AM
#41
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
This. And that is not including the poor performance metrics and gulag like mentality I keep hearing at RAH and Gojet (and I believe at Mesa). I am not saying this because I have a beef with those pilot groups, but rather their management.
12-30-2015, 11:26 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 274
Nobody on here seems to speak about anything at endeavor besides the 20k bonus. The endeavor thread is basically new hires with dollar signs in their eyes, or the 7-8 year fo's telling you how it really is. On the flip side, whenever republic is spoken about you get the regular "stay away" or "good luck". You are hard pressed to find any reliable info on here. Like said before, educate yourself as much as possible and make a decision based on that. Don't base your future on some guy on a website who told you not to go somewhere for whatever reason.
For what it's worth, I interviewed with 10 regionals in Sept & Oct before making a choice. Yes, you can call me a glutton for punishment but, like the originator of this discussion, I took the process seriously and wanted to make as informed a decision as possible. I was offered a job by all but one. Guess which one? Republic. So much for all the "they'll all hire you if you're breathing" stuff. Prior, I flew turbines for the Federal government all throughout the western hemisphere so I probably had a bit more time and experience than many candidates. Still, I knew I didn't perform as well during the Republic interview and wasn't completely surprised at the rejection. Obviously the standard for hiring at Republic was no lower than any other, and had they offered me a job I just might have taken it for a number of very good reasons. The point I'm trying to make here is that in ALL of the interviews, I was impressed with EVERY company and with the candor or the people I met.
So, if you really want to know which is the best for you, I think you have to actually go an see for yourself. Yes, you can gain some insight through this forum. But remember that there is also a lot of conjecture, opinion, and misinformation (accidental or otherwise) interspersed with facts. Bear in mind that each regional is a business like any other in that its two primary objectives are profit maximization to shareholders and longevity. Unfortunately, that's about the only thing that you can bank on as far as how the company will act toward any given situation. While it is true that the fluidity and uncertainty of this industry is significantly higher than most, still, I would also advise that they old adage about the past being the best indicator of the future continues to true for the most part.
In determining which is one for you, I would recommend placing much more emphasis on which best suits you needs rather than their financial positions. As often pointed out on here, there are just too many variables with limited predictability to consider, ever changing things like ... mainline partnerships and contracts, labor contracts, government (FAA) regs & requirements, fuel costs, routes and markets served, the overall economy and size of traveler's wallets ... etc, etc. This makes it impossible to predict the financial health of regionals with much accuracy, even in the short term. Changes in any one of those will affect many of the companies differently and, some a lot, others perhaps little at all. If the changes put just the right stars in alignment, then even today's star can be in deep poop almost overnight. That's why doing your homework regarding which best suits your needs RIGHT NOW is your best course. What's most important? Living in base? Equipment flown? Paid hotels for commuters? Pay levels? Focus on those sorts of things but realize that pay levels also swing back and forth between companies.
Finally, take a look at where people seem to be currently going. That's also a pretty good indicator I think. If the large majority are going to one or two companies then they probably can't all be wrong. Whatever you do ... don't just ask who's best, go see!
12-30-2015, 11:29 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Waaaay Junior
Posts: 129
Basically everything he wrote was wrong... And to top it off it all centered on, Hey if you work 100 hours a month you can make what 9E new guys make in base pay! It's hard to read this stuff without face-palming sometimes.
12-30-2015, 11:34 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
12-30-2015, 01:29 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 216
It might have something to do with the fact that the new RAH pilot contract is possibly unsustainable between new labor costs vs. what mainline partners pay RAH for the feed. I had heard RAH management has gone to it's mainline partners to try and renegotiate higher payouts for the feed to help pay for the new contract that is designed to bring in pilots to solve their staffing issues. Now since 9E is involved in this thread I'll recount what happened to them. Feb 2011 9E gets a new JCBA that is above average at the time in terms of pay and work rules. Nov-Dec 2011 the 9E CEO at the time asks mainline partners for more money to support high labor costs supposedly from the new JCBA. Mainlines say no. April 2012, 9E enters Chpt 11 and later gets hit with a horrible concessionary contract (though it could have been worse). Delta buys what's left for pennies on the dollar and turns it into todays Endeavor after a good 2 years plus of pain and uncertainty for it's employees.
See the potential correlatives between the two carriers? I am not saying RAH will go Chpt 11, but the possibility is there. If they do, then what? Junior pilots bail, they shrink, park airplanes just like 9E. Question then would be if any mainline partner buys what's left of them to fix them like Delta did 9E? RAH plays with all the big 3 airlines so WORST case no one bails em out and the place implodes followed by its doors being shuttered.
To conclude, RAH is a perceived risk and that's why people say to avoid the place. This industry, as we know, can change rapidly. Based on today's info (and I may be biased being a 9E employee), but between the two trying to put bias aside, 9E is the safer option. We've been through the pain and turmoil of this regional consolidation already. For RAH, it could just be the beginning. Good luck with your choice.
See the potential correlatives between the two carriers? I am not saying RAH will go Chpt 11, but the possibility is there. If they do, then what? Junior pilots bail, they shrink, park airplanes just like 9E. Question then would be if any mainline partner buys what's left of them to fix them like Delta did 9E? RAH plays with all the big 3 airlines so WORST case no one bails em out and the place implodes followed by its doors being shuttered.
To conclude, RAH is a perceived risk and that's why people say to avoid the place. This industry, as we know, can change rapidly. Based on today's info (and I may be biased being a 9E employee), but between the two trying to put bias aside, 9E is the safer option. We've been through the pain and turmoil of this regional consolidation already. For RAH, it could just be the beginning. Good luck with your choice.
12-30-2015, 01:55 PM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 68
it's always cool reading people who don't even work for a company bash it and talk about it as if they know the in's and out's of managements plans. As an outsider looking in, wouldn't the company offering 20K in retention with the option for another 10k seem more desperate/in trouble/behind the ball? Considering the definition of "retention" is to keep possession of something.. It's made me wonder if endeavor would even be a thought in anyone's mind if that didn't exist, considering a year ago people were jumping ship and telling others to stay away.
12-30-2015, 02:17 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 216
^^^^ This ^^^^
For what it's worth, I interviewed with 10 regionals in Sept & Oct before making a choice. Yes, you can call me a glutton for punishment but, like the originator of this discussion, I took the process seriously and wanted to make as informed a decision as possible. I was offered a job by all but one. Guess which one? Republic. So much for all the "they'll all hire you if you're breathing" stuff. Prior, I flew turbines for the Federal government all throughout the western hemisphere so I probably had a bit more time and experience than many candidates. Still, I knew I didn't perform as well during the Republic interview and wasn't completely surprised at the rejection. Obviously the standard for hiring at Republic was no lower than any other, and had they offered me a job I just might have taken it for a number of very good reasons. The point I'm trying to make here is that in ALL of the interviews, I was impressed with EVERY company and with the candor or the people I met.
So, if you really want to know which is the best for you, I think you have to actually go an see for yourself. Yes, you can gain some insight through this forum. But remember that there is also a lot of conjecture, opinion, and misinformation (accidental or otherwise) interspersed with facts. Bear in mind that each regional is a business like any other in that its two primary objectives are profit maximization to shareholders and longevity. Unfortunately, that's about the only thing that you can bank on as far as how the company will act toward any given situation. While it is true that the fluidity and uncertainty of this industry is significantly higher than most, still, I would also advise that they old adage about the past being the best indicator of the future continues to true for the most part.
In determining which is one for you, I would recommend placing much more emphasis on which best suits you needs rather than their financial positions. As often pointed out on here, there are just too many variables with limited predictability to consider, ever changing things like ... mainline partnerships and contracts, labor contracts, government (FAA) regs & requirements, fuel costs, routes and markets served, the overall economy and size of traveler's wallets ... etc, etc. This makes it impossible to predict the financial health of regionals with much accuracy, even in the short term. Changes in any one of those will affect many of the companies differently and, some a lot, others perhaps little at all. If the changes put just the right stars in alignment, then even today's star can be in deep poop almost overnight. That's why doing your homework regarding which best suits your needs RIGHT NOW is your best course. What's most important? Living in base? Equipment flown? Paid hotels for commuters? Pay levels? Focus on those sorts of things but realize that pay levels also swing back and forth between companies.
Finally, take a look at where people seem to be currently going. That's also a pretty good indicator I think. If the large majority are going to one or two companies then they probably can't all be wrong. Whatever you do ... don't just ask who's best, go see!
For what it's worth, I interviewed with 10 regionals in Sept & Oct before making a choice. Yes, you can call me a glutton for punishment but, like the originator of this discussion, I took the process seriously and wanted to make as informed a decision as possible. I was offered a job by all but one. Guess which one? Republic. So much for all the "they'll all hire you if you're breathing" stuff. Prior, I flew turbines for the Federal government all throughout the western hemisphere so I probably had a bit more time and experience than many candidates. Still, I knew I didn't perform as well during the Republic interview and wasn't completely surprised at the rejection. Obviously the standard for hiring at Republic was no lower than any other, and had they offered me a job I just might have taken it for a number of very good reasons. The point I'm trying to make here is that in ALL of the interviews, I was impressed with EVERY company and with the candor or the people I met.
So, if you really want to know which is the best for you, I think you have to actually go an see for yourself. Yes, you can gain some insight through this forum. But remember that there is also a lot of conjecture, opinion, and misinformation (accidental or otherwise) interspersed with facts. Bear in mind that each regional is a business like any other in that its two primary objectives are profit maximization to shareholders and longevity. Unfortunately, that's about the only thing that you can bank on as far as how the company will act toward any given situation. While it is true that the fluidity and uncertainty of this industry is significantly higher than most, still, I would also advise that they old adage about the past being the best indicator of the future continues to true for the most part.
In determining which is one for you, I would recommend placing much more emphasis on which best suits you needs rather than their financial positions. As often pointed out on here, there are just too many variables with limited predictability to consider, ever changing things like ... mainline partnerships and contracts, labor contracts, government (FAA) regs & requirements, fuel costs, routes and markets served, the overall economy and size of traveler's wallets ... etc, etc. This makes it impossible to predict the financial health of regionals with much accuracy, even in the short term. Changes in any one of those will affect many of the companies differently and, some a lot, others perhaps little at all. If the changes put just the right stars in alignment, then even today's star can be in deep poop almost overnight. That's why doing your homework regarding which best suits your needs RIGHT NOW is your best course. What's most important? Living in base? Equipment flown? Paid hotels for commuters? Pay levels? Focus on those sorts of things but realize that pay levels also swing back and forth between companies.
Finally, take a look at where people seem to be currently going. That's also a pretty good indicator I think. If the large majority are going to one or two companies then they probably can't all be wrong. Whatever you do ... don't just ask who's best, go see!
12-30-2015, 02:26 PM
#50
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 519
Well thought out post. Refreshing to see on this forum. Thank you for sharing your recent experiences with us, and thanks for lending some sanity to the forum.
If you don't mind sharing, who did you end up going for of the 9 potential regionals? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to put up with the silly responses you will face here.
If you don't mind sharing, who did you end up going for of the 9 potential regionals? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to put up with the silly responses you will face here.
^^^^ This ^^^^
For what it's worth, I interviewed with 10 regionals in Sept & Oct before making a choice. Yes, you can call me a glutton for punishment but, like the originator of this discussion, I took the process seriously and wanted to make as informed a decision as possible. I was offered a job by all but one.
.
.
.
Finally, take a look at where people seem to be currently going. That's also a pretty good indicator I think. If the large majority are going to one or two companies then they probably can't all be wrong. Whatever you do ... don't just ask who's best, go see!
For what it's worth, I interviewed with 10 regionals in Sept & Oct before making a choice. Yes, you can call me a glutton for punishment but, like the originator of this discussion, I took the process seriously and wanted to make as informed a decision as possible. I was offered a job by all but one.
.
.
.
Finally, take a look at where people seem to be currently going. That's also a pretty good indicator I think. If the large majority are going to one or two companies then they probably can't all be wrong. Whatever you do ... don't just ask who's best, go see!
