Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
11-15-2016, 11:13 AM
#8281
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
11-15-2016, 11:33 AM
#8283
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
Ask the CA to "let you be the CA". You write stuff up in the mx book. You find the page in the MEL and explain it to him. You compute bingo fuel for a hold and divert. Quiet time in cruise? Ask him "what would you do now if xxx happens?" Better yet, tell him what YOU would do if it happens and have him critique it.
Ask him why he did what he did, and if you disagree with his decision, ask him to critique your thought process. Read the FOM, not USA Today. Watch the guy in the left seat and learn what and what not to do. Etc. Any CA worth his salt will be more than happy to mentor you like that.
Ask him why he did what he did, and if you disagree with his decision, ask him to critique your thought process. Read the FOM, not USA Today. Watch the guy in the left seat and learn what and what not to do. Etc. Any CA worth his salt will be more than happy to mentor you like that.
11-15-2016, 11:51 AM
#8284
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Never said I was the best of the best. I'm not even the best of the fattest part of the middle of the bell curve on a good day 
DL does like those who "fly DL passengers" as evidenced by the massive numbers of DCI pilots they've hired both in this cycle and before that.
You say your time at DCI should count for more than an interview, yet many work for years busting their tails and going to job fairs and networking and doing extra "resume" stuff and upgrading as soon as they can and all the other things it sometimes takes. But you are owed not just an interview, but a guaranteed job. And anyone saying differently is "pompous", and yet you claim that's not a sense of entitlement.
That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. And you can bet they are trained to spot that a mile away. You can try and fool them, and that sometimes works. Or you can recage your entitlement and realize you actually have to work for it, and not everyone will be successful with any given company. That doesn't mean they aren't (really) good pilots or even good people. But HR controls who they hire and if you want the job you have to get it through them, not us.
FYI you do get formal credit for being DCI. Its on the app and it adds points. They'll be able to easily tell in the interview if you've been a good employee (or at least if you haven't been I suppose) and the rest if up to you. JMHO, but I wouldn't tell them that you'll consider a "no thanks" from them the same as a big fat middle finger KMA. Be gracious either way and move on.
You want to know a secret about airline interviews? Its not really about finding the best of the best. Its largely about seeing if the applicant is motivated enough to prepare for it in the first place because that IS an indicator of future success. That's one part of it that really separates the entitled from the humble and motivated. Walking in and thinking "yeah I'm basically owed this because I already paid my dues at DCI" is an easy way not to get it.
DL does like those who "fly DL passengers" as evidenced by the massive numbers of DCI pilots they've hired both in this cycle and before that.
You say your time at DCI should count for more than an interview, yet many work for years busting their tails and going to job fairs and networking and doing extra "resume" stuff and upgrading as soon as they can and all the other things it sometimes takes. But you are owed not just an interview, but a guaranteed job. And anyone saying differently is "pompous", and yet you claim that's not a sense of entitlement.
That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. And you can bet they are trained to spot that a mile away. You can try and fool them, and that sometimes works. Or you can recage your entitlement and realize you actually have to work for it, and not everyone will be successful with any given company. That doesn't mean they aren't (really) good pilots or even good people. But HR controls who they hire and if you want the job you have to get it through them, not us.
FYI you do get formal credit for being DCI. Its on the app and it adds points. They'll be able to easily tell in the interview if you've been a good employee (or at least if you haven't been I suppose) and the rest if up to you. JMHO, but I wouldn't tell them that you'll consider a "no thanks" from them the same as a big fat middle finger KMA. Be gracious either way and move on.
You want to know a secret about airline interviews? Its not really about finding the best of the best. Its largely about seeing if the applicant is motivated enough to prepare for it in the first place because that IS an indicator of future success. That's one part of it that really separates the entitled from the humble and motivated. Walking in and thinking "yeah I'm basically owed this because I already paid my dues at DCI" is an easy way not to get it.
11-15-2016, 12:32 PM
#8285
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I didn't mean to sound like I was saying you have the "pompous" attitude I was referring to. I'm merely saying that it's very evident among the ranks there. That's what eats at people. I understand the entitlement generation of which I'm not a part of. And really, I've had to bust my tail my whole life for what I've wanted. Just getting to a regional alone with a college degree, being motivated to upgrade as soon as possible, and keeping your record clean shows a lot of determination and motivation in my opinion. I also don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel you're stuck in the past, as in that's what I had to do when I was hired. Or that's the way we've always done it. Because truthfully, the way American is doing it would also work at Delta. The bad apples would get sorted out in training and or probation.
And I'm not a "you must pay your dues" kind of guy. I am a strong advocate for hotels and uniforms for new hires as well as eliminating the artificially lower "first year pay" nonsense. IMO first year pay should be 2% or so below second year pay, etc, and NH's should get line pay, not lower "training pay".
As for the interview, I'm glad the asinine "medical" is gone, and I think we overemphasize the psych part. The knowledge part and much of the sit down are things you can almost 100% prepare for. I realize that's a lot of very particular work in a short period of time. But its what the company wants to see. Why? Because when you're hired here, you have, well, a lot of very particular work to do in a short period of time. Is it the perfect method above all others for selection? I doubt it. But it works for them. Quite well actually.
From what I've heard, they're absolutely adamant about maintaining the ability to pick who they want. Maybe AA is moving in a different direction, but the rest of the industry pretty much still does it that way.
As for the bad apples, DL does not want to get rid of people in training or during probation. Also, DL has what is by far the best probation system in the industry IMO. You're not only off in 400 hours, which for most occurs at the 7-9 month mark from DOH, but also the lion's share of jeopardy goes away after you finish OE anyway, which is usually 3 months after hire or less.
So they are really limited to get rid of people during that phase, and they don't like to anyway. What they flirted with earlier with the "all EDV new hires go to DL but everyone else gets an interview" I was 100% against. I realize how asinine that is and the division it causes.
DL has done a lot right, and some things wrongly IMO. The ridiculous buy high sell low B-School nonsense with ASA and CMR is a historic blunder. Hopefully EDV can work out to be a great place to work and a solid path to DL for those who want it. I think the success rate is high and for those who prepare and have a good attitude about it, its even higher. Still though, some will fall through the cracks and that sucks. But every legacy is hiring off the charts, plus SWA and the leading cargo airlines. It's going to be really hard to get stuck at a regional going forward unless one wants to be.
11-15-2016, 12:41 PM
#8286
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
I don't know about that (pompousness) being evident "in the ranks here". I've heard that, just as I've heard AA pilots are "sky nazis" and NWA pilots were all disgruntled and SWA pilots are all cowboys and on and on and on. Yet the more time you spend in the industry, the more you see there really isn't much difference. I've spent a lot of time in every system's jumpseats and of course flew the same of them. No difference, other than the standard deviations you see in house anywhere.
And I'm not a "you must pay your dues" kind of guy. I am a strong advocate for hotels and uniforms for new hires as well as eliminating the artificially lower "first year pay" nonsense. IMO first year pay should be 2% or so below second year pay, etc, and NH's should get line pay, not lower "training pay".
As for the interview, I'm glad the asinine "medical" is gone, and I think we overemphasize the psych part. The knowledge part and much of the sit down are things you can almost 100% prepare for. I realize that's a lot of very particular work in a short period of time. But its what the company wants to see. Why? Because when you're hired here, you have, well, a lot of very particular work to do in a short period of time. Is it the perfect method above all others for selection? I doubt it. But it works for them. Quite well actually.
From what I've heard, they're absolutely adamant about maintaining the ability to pick who they want. Maybe AA is moving in a different direction, but the rest of the industry pretty much still does it that way.
As for the bad apples, DL does not want to get rid of people in training or during probation. Also, DL has what is by far the best probation system in the industry IMO. You're not only off in 400 hours, which for most occurs at the 7-9 month mark from DOH, but also the lion's share of jeopardy goes away after you finish OE anyway, which is usually 3 months after hire or less.
So they are really limited to get rid of people during that phase, and they don't like to anyway. What they flirted with earlier with the "all EDV new hires go to DL but everyone else gets an interview" I was 100% against. I realize how asinine that is and the division it causes.
DL has done a lot right, and some things wrongly IMO. The ridiculous buy high sell low B-School nonsense with ASA and CMR is a historic blunder. Hopefully EDV can work out to be a great place to work and a solid path to DL for those who want it. I think the success rate is high and for those who prepare and have a good attitude about it, its even higher. Still though, some will fall through the cracks and that sucks. But every legacy is hiring off the charts, plus SWA and the leading cargo airlines. It's going to be really hard to get stuck at a regional going forward unless one wants to be.
And I'm not a "you must pay your dues" kind of guy. I am a strong advocate for hotels and uniforms for new hires as well as eliminating the artificially lower "first year pay" nonsense. IMO first year pay should be 2% or so below second year pay, etc, and NH's should get line pay, not lower "training pay".
As for the interview, I'm glad the asinine "medical" is gone, and I think we overemphasize the psych part. The knowledge part and much of the sit down are things you can almost 100% prepare for. I realize that's a lot of very particular work in a short period of time. But its what the company wants to see. Why? Because when you're hired here, you have, well, a lot of very particular work to do in a short period of time. Is it the perfect method above all others for selection? I doubt it. But it works for them. Quite well actually.
From what I've heard, they're absolutely adamant about maintaining the ability to pick who they want. Maybe AA is moving in a different direction, but the rest of the industry pretty much still does it that way.
As for the bad apples, DL does not want to get rid of people in training or during probation. Also, DL has what is by far the best probation system in the industry IMO. You're not only off in 400 hours, which for most occurs at the 7-9 month mark from DOH, but also the lion's share of jeopardy goes away after you finish OE anyway, which is usually 3 months after hire or less.
So they are really limited to get rid of people during that phase, and they don't like to anyway. What they flirted with earlier with the "all EDV new hires go to DL but everyone else gets an interview" I was 100% against. I realize how asinine that is and the division it causes.
DL has done a lot right, and some things wrongly IMO. The ridiculous buy high sell low B-School nonsense with ASA and CMR is a historic blunder. Hopefully EDV can work out to be a great place to work and a solid path to DL for those who want it. I think the success rate is high and for those who prepare and have a good attitude about it, its even higher. Still though, some will fall through the cracks and that sucks. But every legacy is hiring off the charts, plus SWA and the leading cargo airlines. It's going to be really hard to get stuck at a regional going forward unless one wants to be.
11-15-2016, 02:09 PM
#8287
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
With regards to the SSP, how much was sold out for the vault letter. We could have had a flow, but it would have come at a cost the senior folk weren't willing to pay. We know the Mesaba flow was canceled over the bypasses wanting another shot. When will people get it through their heads that the more you demand from Delta, the less they give you.
11-15-2016, 03:04 PM
#8289
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 294
11-15-2016, 03:51 PM
#8290
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: CaptFo
Posts: 997
So DL should pick equally from all regionals "flying their passengers" and I assume Alaska, Horizon, Air France and every other airline too. How about we include interline agreements? Why wouldn't we? So now everyone flies everyone's passengers. Even assuming we locked out all military pilots from legacy etc hiring, we'd probably end up at about the same hiring timeline as we have now.
The entitlement mentality is absolutely toxic, and you can be sure that professional interviewers can spot it a nautical mile away.
If you want a job at a different company, apply and get hired. No one owes you.
The entitlement mentality is absolutely toxic, and you can be sure that professional interviewers can spot it a nautical mile away.
If you want a job at a different company, apply and get hired. No one owes you.
Last edited by Yumyum; 11-15-2016 at 04:15 PM.
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