Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
10-31-2016, 07:09 PM
#7781
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 755
Let's say for the sake of argument that you had chosen one university over another due to the fact that that university had an agreement with a regional airline that after instructing there for two years you would go straight to the regional affiliate without an interview. For this "in" you paid significantly more than you would have to attend a different university, and accepted below average pay for your instructing. Now low and behold it's 2016 and regionals are falling all over themselves to hire any qualified pilot with a pulse and it turns out you have your pick of regionals that want YOU. Plus that one regional with the affiliation has since closed the base you wanted and is now the lowest paid regional in the industry.
So of what value was that "flow"? What kind of return on investment did you get from the extra expense and lost income by taking that agreement?
That level of demand is coming to the major level, and certainly to the LCC's. Flows lose value with every retirement. Calm down, study, do a prep, and you won't need a flow!
So of what value was that "flow"? What kind of return on investment did you get from the extra expense and lost income by taking that agreement?
That level of demand is coming to the major level, and certainly to the LCC's. Flows lose value with every retirement. Calm down, study, do a prep, and you won't need a flow!
There are other good parts of the flow that you are missing. The flow guarantees that there is steady movement in the company. You will always more up the list a certain amount each month. Even if outside attrition is high, the overall amount that you move up is more than it would be with attrition alone.
That movement means less time on reserve, less time until upgrading, and less time on reserve again as a Captain.
It also guarantees you a mainline job if things do not go well in the future for you. Lets say that you bust a checkride, or that you screw up an interview. You still have a mainline job waiting for you.
10-31-2016, 07:20 PM
#7782
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 63
We can attract all the new hires we want, but we need movement off the top. The reality of a DTW or MSP upgrade is endless reserve due to all the lifers. NYC is not for everyone.
It'll be interesting to see what the company comes out with for the rest of us. iPads are not this huge amazing breakthrough of a benefit that some would make it out to be. All that does is catch us up to where everyone else was years ago.
At least new hires are now being paid a fair wage to start. Time to catch the rest of us up.
It'll be interesting to see what the company comes out with for the rest of us. iPads are not this huge amazing breakthrough of a benefit that some would make it out to be. All that does is catch us up to where everyone else was years ago.
At least new hires are now being paid a fair wage to start. Time to catch the rest of us up.
10-31-2016, 07:42 PM
#7785
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 465
Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
Nothing guarantees you a mainline job, not being hired at mainline (furloughs happen, people break stuff, training failures etc), and certainly not a flow. Ive flown with countless people who had a flow. So why are they still at 9e? Because flows can go away. You want a guarantee of a mainline job? Get a mainline number when hired at your regional. Anything less is just a pinky swear and bait to get people who are too naive to realize that these flows exist and then disappear without warning.
You are far better off working at a carrier with good work rules, good pay, and a base you want to be in and interview with the same airlines that are making people wait to flow or any other you are interested in than to listen to the guy saying everything will be great someday while you sit on your hands. If the airline you are flowing to wanted you to work there, they would have just hired you. They want you to work for their regional and the first opportunity to pull a flow that arises, it will disappear. You are much better earning money and having good QOL.
10-31-2016, 07:48 PM
#7786
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 755
Nothing guarantees you a mainline job, not being hired at mainline (furloughs happen, people break stuff, training failures etc), and certainly not a flow. Ive flown with countless people who had a flow. So why are they still at 9e? Because flows can go away. You want a guarantee of a mainline job? Get a mainline number when hired at your regional. Anything less is just a pinky swear and bait to get people who are too naive to realize that these flows exist and then disappear without warning.
You are far better off working at a carrier with good work rules, good pay, and a base you want to be in and interview with the same airlines that are making people wait to flow or any other you are interested in than to listen to the guy saying everything will be great someday while you sit on your hands. If the airline you are flowing to wanted you to work there, they would have just hired you. They want you to work for their regional and the first opportunity to pull a flow that arises, it will disappear. You are much better earning money and having good QOL.
You are far better off working at a carrier with good work rules, good pay, and a base you want to be in and interview with the same airlines that are making people wait to flow or any other you are interested in than to listen to the guy saying everything will be great someday while you sit on your hands. If the airline you are flowing to wanted you to work there, they would have just hired you. They want you to work for their regional and the first opportunity to pull a flow that arises, it will disappear. You are much better earning money and having good QOL.
A flow does actually guarantee a mainline job, if that is how it is worded. It may take some time (furloughs or something else bad can happen), but as long as you meet your end of the deal, a judge/arbitrator will make sure that the other half keeps up their part of the bargain. And again, depending how it is worded, there is no interview for the flow. Just show up to class. Period.
I do agree that no current pilot should "need" the flow, but would you give one up?
10-31-2016, 07:56 PM
#7787
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 507
Self centered? By saying that our whole pilot group needs to be taken care of. There are plenty of ways to attract new pilots by incorporating every pilot on property not just one group.
10-31-2016, 08:00 PM
#7788
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 547
We can attract all the new hires we want, but we need movement off the top. The reality of a DTW or MSP upgrade is endless reserve due to all the lifers. NYC is not for everyone.
It'll be interesting to see what the company comes out with for the rest of us. iPads are not this huge amazing breakthrough of a benefit that some would make it out to be. All that does is catch us up to where everyone else was years ago.
At least new hires are now being paid a fair wage to start. Time to catch the rest of us up.
It'll be interesting to see what the company comes out with for the rest of us. iPads are not this huge amazing breakthrough of a benefit that some would make it out to be. All that does is catch us up to where everyone else was years ago.
At least new hires are now being paid a fair wage to start. Time to catch the rest of us up.
10-31-2016, 08:15 PM
#7789
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 507
Nothing guarantees you a mainline job, not being hired at mainline (furloughs happen, people break stuff, training failures etc), and certainly not a flow. Ive flown with countless people who had a flow. So why are they still at 9e? Because flows can go away. You want a guarantee of a mainline job? Get a mainline number when hired at your regional. Anything less is just a pinky swear and bait to get people who are too naive to realize that these flows exist and then disappear without warning.
You are far better off working at a carrier with good work rules, good pay, and a base you want to be in and interview with the same airlines that are making people wait to flow or any other you are interested in than to listen to the guy saying everything will be great someday while you sit on your hands. If the airline you are flowing to wanted you to work there, they would have just hired you. They want you to work for their regional and the first opportunity to pull a flow that arises, it will disappear. You are much better earning money and having good QOL.
You are far better off working at a carrier with good work rules, good pay, and a base you want to be in and interview with the same airlines that are making people wait to flow or any other you are interested in than to listen to the guy saying everything will be great someday while you sit on your hands. If the airline you are flowing to wanted you to work there, they would have just hired you. They want you to work for their regional and the first opportunity to pull a flow that arises, it will disappear. You are much better earning money and having good QOL.
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