Aurora8

Unions are toothless tigers...

JesuitValen

No, no one bargained in bad faith. Delta thought the FOs would take whatever was shoveled at us (i was a fo at time). So most of them took the money and left on the first ride out of town.

JesuitValen

Rrrrright. Normally after a line like this i hear how unions are screwing up everything, even the whole country.

ALPA isnt toothless anyhow, i know because ive filled out a grievance from time to time. Ive won. Ive seen wrongful terminations get their jobs back. And ive seen our union navigate a hostile BK process in association with the RLA that was created to literally give the company the upper hand. They fight a fight under manned, under funded, and with pilots on their own side of the table ****ing all over them.

Silver02ex

When the SSP first came out, it was for CA's only. I was a downgraded CA, and I still couldn't try for the SSP if I wanted. There was many speculations why the FO's couldn't do it. Some say "Delta didn't want it" some say, the union thought "The FO's were not ready" It was later changed about 2 years ago that the FO's could try for the SSP.

gojo

I too get frustrated from time to time. But I have to remind myself that I don't often see the big picture. Here we're in a unique situation being they have to negotiate with Endeavor management, and they in turn have to work with Delta management. In addition many in union positions here are relatively new, and I'm sure there's a learning curve. The fact that this survey was sent out makes me wonder if some thought negotiations were headed down a wrong path? Anyway, I wish it would be easier for me to contribute, but I'm a two leg commute away from Detroit. I'm just glad people are willing to do it.

Mesabah

No one asked the important question of why Delta supposedly wasn't going to honor the agreement, and let the FO's do the two day to jump ahead of the SSP line. For the last year, it should have been 4 FO's a month leaving for Delta, not the captains go first. If the FO's had held out a little longer, a lot of them would already be at mainline instead of waiting now till next year.

Bartok

I'm The SSP did apply to everyone on property when it was signed. Everyone would have the chance to interview if you were on the seniority list.

The stipulation was that you had to be a Captain to interview.

And then changed to everyone would interview but Captains would go to Delta first.

Not the same as "SSP didn't apply to them".

JesuitValen

Sure but as the bottom of the list left there was no way to become captain again. So it didnt apply to first officers.

You're right its not the same but the end state was 81 900s. Mathematically if you furlough or let go more than half the list its just captains and guys who were captains and a couple hangers on thatll never see the left seat. Obviously that changed a bit when air whiskey wouldnt take our 200s, bleak times indeed, easy to forget the ssp was meant for everyone.

crjscum

It'll be interesting to see what happens if this new contract gets signed through with the DL pilots this year. It seems that we have been building up NYC temporarily with 200s as placeholders for future two class planes. I think they were banking on getting more scope relaxed for some shiny new frames to come here but thankfully it seems that's off the table. So what does the future hold for us? Are we gonna keep taking 200s out of the desert (20 rumored for next year) and stay at 81 900s? Or will they look at rearranging/ cancelling contracts with other DCI carriers (that maybe couldn't handle NYC flying) down the road and possibly move those frames to us? (like rumored earlier this year)

Overall, hopefully DL starts taking some of these longer haul 76 seat routes back with the c series and shift them into the current 50 seat routes. This would obviously take time but if they are moving away from relying on DCI to do so much business (which is good for all) what does that mean for us? The 200 won't be around forever (except a few short hops) and if they can't give us more 900s something has to give. Either another company can't staff and we takeover their 2 class frames or 9e will only hire/ attract for the frames we have on property, which I don't see happening with our performance.

Aurora8

Not at all, I've been a union member for years, and like you I have seen them help some individuals in some cases and others not at all. But on a large scale - like for the entire industry like the regional airlines - I just don't see it getting us anywhere. I also seen the downside: I was living in Australia but flying in Papua New Guinea when the "pilot's strike" happened there in 1989 - 90; union driven, and it destroyed the AUS airline industry and took many years to recover. Destroyed or derailed many, many careers.