musketeer

The problem is that the SSP is better than the DGI, and even that wasn't very good. What is the overall pass rate to date, anyway?

When the demand for pilots is going through the roof and the route for career progression is getting worse, how can a guy even begin to justify a program like that?

I'm not trying to get into it with you personally, but I'm confident I'll be at a major in less than 4 years; which is how long it will take to get OTS treatment at a Delta interview here.

No need to get your feathers ruffled, I'm sure it will work for some people.

stillcantfly

But all the ads on here say only endeavor guys get to skip the line? Are they not telling the truth?

FreightWasScary

Then leave nobody cares..... Starting at the bottom of another list sounds smart with the amount of movement here. You can't fix stupid.

Pnclpurgatory

So, rumor, both unions (alpa and afa) have said in 2015, endeavor air has not made a profit. I've search on here where someone posted about regional profits in the 10k with delta, And struck out. Anyone else have a comment on this? Skywest is making profits... Something doesn't add up. This is why the gojets/ endeavor / and other wholly owned you can't get a honest answer. Because fudging numbers about profits to union people is just shady,fudging numbers on 10q & 10k, well that is a little more serious.

gojo

Welcome to corporate accounting 101. Also you mentioned Skywest, but do you think the Express Jet side could be made to look more profitable?

JesuitValen

The majority of EtD guys arent even here anymore, having seen through that program and leaving for everyone except Delta. The majority of people have not taken advantage of or have been give the double finger salute by Delta through the SSP. The GIP is a retooled EtD whose present form is already hinted at being changed again by endeavor executives because they realize they misjudged again and see that that it is below industry average for career progression. The GIP as it is presently created will be changed again, at least thats the plan, so by definition it is worthless and with no contractual enforcement.

There are some pilots at this company, circa oct nov 2014, who had one foot put the door (class date at another company) and would have been gone already if theyd been more motivated or had a better resume, but today they pretend that everything was great the whole time and that they knew things would turn around all along. ****ed that PSA or republic couldn't take them faster so they could get off reserve hell in nyc or dtw, now pretending all is well and they knew it all along. I assume youll be the next transparent dullard pretending the GIP was always a good deal, while it morphs 4 or 5x in front of your eyes in the next 2yrs.

Live in reality, if just for a little while, believe it or not that isn't being negative, it's that fuzzy middle ground where the grass is just as green as it really is, and perception isn't reality. It's a scarey place, but you can do it, I believe in you.

AlphaFox

Reality is that, overall, 60% of Endeavor pilots that interviewed with Delta are already there or are on their way there within the next year and a half. Over the course of time... what is that... 500-600 pilots total? More? That is far, far more that ended up or will end up at Delta than if the program did not exist. 60% overall success rate is actually damned good, considering applications were not vetted in advanced. Apps weren't screened. This accounts for the guy that brought in a cardboard box full of trip books. And the guy that ****ed on the wall after his double No. They... those people... that probably would have never gotten a call in the first place... were guaranteed an interview. So I'd say 60% is very good when you look at the reality of the situation and the context alongside the numbers.

If Endeavor applications had been vetted and the only applicants called were those that fit in the tier level of current competitive hiring, hundreds of Endeavor guys would not have been considered competitive enough for an interview at this time or in the past couple years. But the interview was given, and the rest up to the candidate.

Want reality? Here's a reality check. Maybe you have to work for something in life as opposed to feeling entitled to a handout. Maybe you should have to look someone in the eye and answer some questions before landing what many consider one of the most lucrative jobs in aviation. Maybe it shouldn't be a handout. Actually, we all got a handout -- an interview -- when scoring just an interview in and of itself is something that folks at other regionals would kill each other for. They stand in long lines at job fairs and get tail dragger endorsements and update their app everyday for years and still hear nothing. Want a handout? Give the recruiters at PSA or Envoy a call, do your 3 minute phone "interview", and sit in line and wait to flow up to American. Want to skip a 9 year flow by going to a top paying job within a year or a couple? Crack a damn book and put in a little work. It never ceases to amaze me how that concept is such an incredible ask for some.

The disillusioned reality that you live in is that you believe and feel rightfully entitled to move up to mainline, since you fly DCI planes. You feel you deserve it for some reason. Maybe working for something and earning something for once in an otherwise entirely seniority-controlled progression system isn't such a bad idea. Maybe having candidates vetted before joining a company is smart. Or maybe you believe I'm the completely disillusioned one because I dare say this. If so, quit Endeavor right now and go sign up for your handout career with another regional. It is literally a phone call away.

Mesabah

Yes, basically Delta pays a flat rate to rent our aircraft, they then resell those seats. The profits we collect are off that agreed upon rate, not actual sales. What Delta makes in profit off selling those seats is posted in SEC fillings. So while we don't make any profit, Delta makes about a billion reselling our seats. Since Delta does the selling, they are entitled to the profits. Where the waters get muddy is that our rates are determined by our customer, and not the free market.

JesuitValen

(Gojet isn't wholly owned)

Mesabah

The flip side of your post is that a new pilot looking at coming here vs an American regional, is that the American regional offers far more career progression, and American mainline offers far more career earnings at this point in time. So even if you spend a few more years waiting for the flow there, you will still make out in the end. Also, getting hired at American is almost impossible these days, far and away more AA regional pilots have been hired at Delta, than DCI at American.