It won't be an easy route to Delta if you have to come fly here for several years. Here's the one big problem with programs like this; If you are Delta material, why would you lock yourself into a long commitment at 9E, when you can go to another carrier, and get hired OTS at Delta anyway. If you interview for Delta, it should be for a job at Delta, not ~5 years at Endeavor first.

When did Delta buy 777’s from Asia? What did they do with them?

Didn't they buy one on the cheap for parts/engines?

No, they used aircraft on the international market to drive the price of 777s down, causing much butthurt at Boeing.

Here is an excerpt from the greatest investment tool ever. Morningstar dot com:

“Finally, Delta drives a hard bargain with aircraft manufacturers and hunts for deals on used aircraft. We point to examples such as the Bombardier C Series order in April 2016 that featured major concessions and the carrier's purchase of used 777s for less than $10 million apiece.”

Not sure of the dates. What they did with them is fly them; and still do.

OE
 

How long is the wait for OE on the 900 for upgrade, differences and new hire? If you have recently completed or currently waiting for OE please reply with your wait time. Thanks!

I know on the fo initial side it’s 5 days, which is the contractual minimum amount of days off to acclimate to your base (find a crash pad etc). There should be no delay off for differences or upgrade. The training backup is currently on the 200.

Brief to non existent. We're Short of CA

While you’re spouting suggestions for your union, why don’t you make sure they get you employee pricing for a Ferrari, and positive space credits on Netjets, because they will have exactly the same amount of pull with those companies as they will with any other carrier, major or otherwise. That’s right, zero! Your union has exactly ONE contractual relationship for which it may represent you: between you and your fellow 9E pilots and Endeavor Air Inc. Anything beyond that, like SSP or DGI exists purely as deal where Endeavor acts as a benevolent mediator with DAL. If you really want leverage to get a job with a different major, your options are 1) Take care of your application and resume such that wherever your dream non-Delta job is, they will score your application high enough to earn an interview, then rock the interview, pass the drug test, and then depart into the sunset with your non-Delta dream girl. 2) Use the aforementioned resume and apply to a non-Delta associated regional that has a flow agreement with a non-Delta major. Flow to your non-Delta major at the appointed time.

Your oft-stated preference to go somewhere non-Delta, but glamorous seems to be a bit of an act of peeing from a great height onto someone, but failing to check that you’re pointed directly into the wind. Here is a reality check: owing to where you are posting and the implied details of those posts, you’re employed at 9E, which, SURPRISE, is owned by DAL, and flies passengers for the DAL system. If your heart’s desire is to fly for SWA or AA or UAL, here’s an obvious clue: whining about the 9E union’s failure to craft some sort of flow or interview program with a non-Delta major is kind of asinine. That’s a free clue. For better clues on escaping the DAL universe, you should probably pay good money to Cage Consulting, Emerald Coast, Checked and Set, or RST for application review and interview prep. They can provide actual insight into getting to a non-Delta carrier, and disabuse you of some of your proctal viewing problems. Best of luck.

Proctal viewing problems.

That is funneeeeeee!!!

Then please explain the GoJet/Spirit and Transtates/Frontier deals. Last I checked neither had any flying relationship with each other. And I never signed up to have anything to do with Delta from the day I applied for this job. As for my career plans, they are in motion already, thanks. And yes, I suppose you are right, I have an open invitation to go back to corporate flying, but overall it doesn't make sense for me to take right now, just as going to Envoy to wait 8+ years for AA would at this point.
I guess my point is more that not every pilot here wants to go to Delta and as such that shouldn't be our sole focus. And it's a way to point out the tremendous conflict of interest that ALPA is. There is no way that ALPA can properly represent us while also representing Delta pilots. Same with United and any UEX ALPA airlines, or Air Canada and Jazz or whomever has ALPA for both major and regional.

Avro, you are free to apply anywhere you wish. If you think
It’s best for OUR union to stop working with Delta mgt and try to secure a pref hiring to a LCC you are in a very small minority.

So you want to compare low cost regionals’ relationship with two ULCCs and somehow imply that ALPA 9E would be better off spurning the #1 major (in terms of profitability), that OWNS the regional airline that employs ALPA 9E pilots, in favor of some TBD relationship? I’m just trying to see if I fully understand what you’re advocating, because it sounds batguano crazy to suggest that you’d have much of a following within the 9E pilot group for that suggestion. A cynical person might think you’ve interviewed and been told no by DAL, or that you don’t hold a 4 year degree and therefore cannot matriculate to DAL. There’s really no shame in either of those. I know some very good pilots from both my mil and my 9E time that didn’t get CJOs at DAL, and I know some very good pilots that lack 4 year degrees. But the suggestion that the ALPA 9E should abandon efforts to improve follow-on success of its pilots to the parent company in favor of some yet to be determined, but somehow better airline just doesn’t make much sense. It can’t do both, and your suggestions otherwise sound less than exemplary. My suggestion would be to put more effort into squaring away your own follow-on plan. Again, best of luck.

Just call him Colonel:

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/684af14...d-d690a43fdd13

I'm simply saying there is no reason to put all you eggs in the Delta basket. Why not try to set up hiring options besides Delta since Delta is clearly not interested in bringing a large number of pilots over. It sure seems like their priority is keeping as many stuck here as long as they can. ALPA national has not shown me that they have ever truly had my (my company's) best interests in mind. Those interests either are in direct conflict with the major partner, or would require true career progression. Interesting enough, the ALPA major airlines don't have a flow nor high hire rate interview path. The major that does, isn't ALPA.

As for me, yes I was turned down (and won't accept the retry) Delta is not a fit for me, and I'm probably not a fit for them. Not everyone is. Remember the 3 companies that became Endeavor had almost no ties to Delta pre merger and many of us had other companies we'd have rather moved on to. There is nothing wrong with that, not everyone fits every company. I think it's foolish to pretend Delta is the only company and the only place to move on to, but that's what many are doing here. I hope I'm wrong about the success rate of the DGI even though anyone moving on would be junior to me. Everyone that wants to go to Delta from here should.

You act like the company is still dominated by pre-merger employees, when well over half are post merger and only know this place as Delta Connection...

I am aware, and they should all be aware that there is a career outside the Delta world that may well be a better fit both in time and environment.

I would submit that it isn’t the union’s job to get you a job with a major, just as it isn’t the union’s job to fly the airplane for you, get you through training, or mow your lawn. It IS within the purview of the union to represent you in matters of pay, benefits, job security, working conditions, and quality of life matters that touch your relationship with your current employer, 9E, which as it turns out, is owned by Delta. You are correct that not everyone is a fit for Delta, and the same could be said for a host of other companies, but poo-pooing DGI, or any other program that might grease the skids for some pilots to progress from 9E to its parent company just because it isn’t what you want sounds kind of crazy.

Because DGI is only an interview program and not a flow, I will repeat what I’ve said elsewhere, which is, that it is incumbent upon every pilot that interviews at DAL to invest the due diligence of prepping for the interview so as to be successful. Each individual is ultimately responsible for their own success, and in aggregate, they affect DAL’s perception of the 9E pilot group and its attractiveness (or lack thereof) for a solid guarantee of a flow in the future.

Beyond the obvious business relationship between 9E and its owner, DAL, and not some snapshot of historical antiquity, if you, or anyone else, does not wish to go to Delta as a follow-on, and also for all of those who DO want to go to Delta, whining about ALPA’s failure to get you a job elsewhere (again, it isn’t their job), is wasted oxygen. DGI or not, and desire to follow-on at Delta or not, taking care of your own resume, application, and interview prep so as to be so incredibly attractive to any employer that they can’t turn down the opportunity to interview and hire you is YOUR responsibility and no one else’s.

As a follow-on statement of the obvious, anything that doesn’t violate your principles has a price. If you have a billion dollars to pay me, I will happily eat a plate of dog poo in exchange for that billion dollars. I will not sell my children, my spouse, or my body for a billion dollars. With this in mind, DAL pays a lot of freaking money to its pilots to fly airplanes, and so I happily wear the stupid double-breasted jacket and similarly stupid hat because it is folded into the contractual relationship with my company, and it doesn’t violate my principles. It’s a small price to pay in return for a TON of money doing something that while sometimes annoying, isn’t all that hard. I had CJOs at other majors as well, and each, like Delta, has their warts, and for my situation, I made the decision to go to Delta.

Your mileage may vary, but as someone with friends and mostly fond memories of 9E, I think your harping about not liking the 9E-Delta relationship is pretty whiny and lame. You said you won’t attempt a retry with DAL, and whatever your reasons, they are sufficient for you, and I have no reason to question them. Proposing your post-interview calculus and desires upon the rest of the pilot group as some sort of enlightened revelation is pretty silly. Best of luck with whatever you do. BTW, as of 2016 there were still as many 144 Avros still in service, perhaps you ought to pursue one of those companies and relive the benighted glory of your former years.

I believe it is actually the job of the union to assist you in finding employment with other ALPA carriers, especially during furlough.

Alpo is the greatest. Just look what they do for sun country and their pay in comparison to other alpo 737 operators. Apples to oranges? I would say NO!

I never said it was their job to get me a job at a major. But it also isn't their job to lie to get a garbage bankruptcy contract rammed through that greatly hinders the movement of pilots to mainline. The first several batches of SSP pilots were going in expecting a PSA style handshake and class date, because that's what ALPA told them they were voting for. Yes eventually ALPA had to admit the truth and did some interview preps, but the damage was already done.


However, we are all supposedly in the same happy union, so yes there should be some sort of career progression available, and not just to one lone place. Oh that's right, ALPA isn't a union, it's an association that basically leaves everyone out for themselves. There are several times in history of this

Sometimes I let my wife read the 'pilot forums' and she goes "sooooo its people arguing anonymously.... How's that different than the rest of the internet?"

Then she sends me this that she uses in her 2nd grade classroom

I cried 🤣https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...75ab369fa7.jpg

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I think we maybe can get away with H but that’s a stretch. everything else is a hard no

I agree with your wife 100%! But APC forums would wither and die if the Type A personalities that post on APC followed the "THInK" rules. Then where would we go for anonymous hearsay, drivel and complaining?
BTW, your wife undoubtedly is paid less for much harder work in a more honorable profession than that of the "professional" pilots on APC. Please send her my anonymous thank you. I still remember my 2nd grade teacher. And that was in the 1970s. Yes, I'm that old, and yes, she was that awesome of a teacher.
I may have hit most of the "THInK" rules in this one post...

Has the #metoo statute of limitations expired?

It's not about having a flying relationship with each other. Both airlines was having an issues with getting qualified applicants. Spirit will get guys from GJ while GJ can advertise: "Go to Spirit in a very short time." Now with the new contract in place at Spirit, we are seeing much more qualified applicants and this deal is no longer needed. Which is the reason GJ is holding their pilots back form going to Spirit due to the short staffing.

1000% disagree
Some of us have absolutely zero intention being part of Dixie airlines. North of 300 that didn’t even interview. Supply and demand....branch out for your services

Management would never allow career progression to any carrier other then Delta.

Anybody that advocates for career progression to someone other then Delta doesn’t understand history. Delta would kill off Endeavor in the blink of an eye.

Doesn't understand history or is too stupid to understand economics. Endeavor is owned by Delta. The CEO and various other positions are Delta employees. Delta would never allow its regional to provide flying for a competitor nor grease the skids for pilot hiring to another airline during a pilot shortage. To think that it's even possible that you would have any "leverage" to get management to create other opportunities is incredibly stupid.

The majors are not in a pilot shortage.
But more curiously, what is the difference between delta selling above and below the wing services to other airlines and pilot services?

There is a pilot shortage at the regional level. And to your second point, I don't understand what you are asking and how it relates to my statement.

He's asking about DGS but it's not a good comparison.

Delta sells DGS services to other airlines at stations where Delta is already staffing and other airlines are just paying for Delta's downtime.

In the case of pilots/regional feed there's no downtime to be had, therefore Delta has no surplus to sell. Even if they DID have surplus to sell, it's probably more worth it to them to deny the surplus to competitors (see 90 CRJ's parked in the desert rather than sold)

Oh sure Delta schedules their competition to arrive and depart during Delta’s down time.
Yeah.
That’s the ticket.

If you have a service already set up at an airport, you can charge your competitors a premium on using your services. This basically turns a sunk cost for doing business at an outstation into a potential wash. If you structure it well enough, you can virtually get your competitors to cover the cost of your ground services.

It has been so successful for Delta and I can only imagine lucrative, that United sunk a fortune into starting up United Ground express instead of relying on DGS and American Eagle. That requires a ton of capital.

https://news.delta.com/delta-and-bombardier-execute-purchase-agreement-20-crj900-replacement-aircraft

Doesn’t say for who though.

Read the article, they are CRJ900- SC... someone is getting new, 70 seat CRJ900s.

Just in my opinion. I don’t think they’d buy gojet or Skywest new planes. It’s probaly to replace older CA tail 700s. Maybe they got a filler contract until planes can be delivered to us. After all delta has 22 of their planes,and hiring is picking back up.


Or delta likes gojet better than us and will buy them new planes and give us hand me downs.

I don’t know who is getting them... but my point is they are 700/170 replacements.

Isn’t there exactly 22 (or is it 20?) old Comair 700’s flying at GoJet? (Along with the 12 900’s they fly.)