404yxl

How is ~300 Endeavor pilots who have already passed the SSP, waiting to go to Delta in 2016-17 any different in terms of status than ~300 Compass pilots who went to Delta in 2014-15?

I don't see a difference in their status other than some parts of their metering agreement and % of the total pilot group. They both go when their number is called. As for the Compass pilots waiting in the pool, I really don't see them any different than the status of the Compass flows other than they aren't ahead of other new hires. The reason why it doesn't really matter anymore at Compass is that there aren't that many waiting on Delta class dates than there use to be. The reason for Endeavor being a better choice than Compass now is the shear % of the pilot group that already has a spot waiting for them at Delta.

Again, we're arguing semantics here about those who have passed the SSP and if they are really any different in status than the Compass flows were. I am stating that the only thing that matters to new hires is career progression and Endeavor offers a similar one than Compass once did.

The SSP agreement states the Endeavor pilots have to comprise a % of the new hire class. That guarantees them spots. When the Compass flow was in affect, they could see reduced numbers due to it, but now it should increase to ~180 in 2016 and 200+ in 2017. Significant attrition, similar to what Compass was seeing. Compass pilots also didn't have a seniority number at Delta until their class date. They got held back and kept their hire date, but that is the only difference in how the Compass and Endeavor pilots are treated in their respective agreements. The Endeavor pilots have to be released by the end of the year, so they will be gone regardless.

Sure, I was telling new hires to look at Compass over Endeavor in 2013-2014, and now I think Endeavor is the better bet in 2016 onward. I think Envoy is close to being another good bet over Compass now. If Compass or other regionals get a real flow/SSP agreement with mainline partners I will state the pros then. However, as it stands now, Endeavor and Envoy will have the most attrition when compared to he other regionals. Throw PDT in there as well, since I think their flow also allows a good % of the total pilot group to flow to AA as well.

dc10guy

If 9E had a true flow, no one would have to interview. I don't think Eagle pilots have to interview to flow to AA. That is what a flow is.

KSCessnaDriver

I just finished training and it was just over 10 weeks from the start of indoc until I started OE. A few days off here and there, a few for the holidays, but I didn't have any significant chunks of time off.

Jamis81

This right here...


404yxl, you're partially right, it is semantics. But you're also incorrect. 9E pilots do not have a flow. As Mesaba we did. I interviewed at XJ and for awhile that combined with biding my time would have been enough to become a pilot at NWA. Envoy has a flow, Piedmont has a flow. Endeavor offers a guaranteed interview. As has been said, this is not a flow. It is a guaranteed shot to go interview with Delta. I was very greatful for that chance, but the only leg up we received was to guarentee a chance to interview.

Now, where the word "flow" could be used.. Those with CJO's are in the pool, just waiting on our chance to "flow" or be allowed to move to DL. that however should not be confused with saying 9E has a "flow through" agreement. To spread that tale is disingenuous to those interested in coming to 9E.

If you are hired at 9E today, you are guaranteed a chance to interview at Delta and prove you are Delta someone that Delta wants. You are not guaranteed a job at DL if hired at Endeavor as a flow through wild provide.


Sorry to belabor the point, but there is a big difference.

Bar Harbor

This statement is false. I agree with you that 9E is the place to go but his statement is false.

A CJO holder that interviewed in 2015 and will have a class in 2016 or 2017 will not go "before off the street hires" to use your own words.

That being said, coming to 9E is a great choice. Good compensation and the guaranteed interview will put many candidates in front of DL before they could ever come in off the street. If DL is your end game then 9E is a great path to take



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cf105

No no, 404 is just here to help us all, give us the right info, in order to help us make the right decision when choosing a regional and then go to 9E

and he keeps insisting in calling it a "flow"...

gojo

FFS 80. Why are you so hung up on the word "flow"? Two worthless pages of dribble because you spaz out at the mention of the name Endeavor. Questions regarding pilot progression can and should be asked at the interview And quite frankly, anyone that doesn't understand the difference should probably choose a different profession

mooney

Can't say about ground school, but the sim portion for upgrade is much shorter. New hires get 5 GFS events and 11 sim events under both AQP and the old way (old way 9 sims plus checkride and loft) aqp is 8 training sims plus an MV and an LOE plus loft. Upgrade only does 2 GFS and 4 sims plus checkride/loft.

JayBee

wheres the like button ffs

VoiceOfReason

I believe dream jobs like flying mainline should be earned, not given. I salute 9E and the guys and gals working hard to make it happen there. That airline has turned things around and is being rewarded by its mainline partner. The payoff will be much sweeter for us all if we had to work a little harder to justify our place in this world.

Speaking of which, could you imagine a flow in any other industry? Doctors flowing up from podiatry to neurosurgery? Teachers flowing from kindergarten to college? Stay focused, work hard, and advance your career like any other industry.