Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
06-14-2022, 08:43 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,079
The issue is new hires at Delta would be going to the 73/320/220 etc, while senior CRJ pilots would be fenced off for many years, which is not allowed, as fences only apply to pilots currently on property. A staple is not possible until Delta is in a position where they are not hiring at mainline.
06-14-2022, 09:37 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 438
this. This should be done by DL tomorrow. And to those that say it would affect DL hiring, I don’t believe it would. Sure, there would be a weird seniority thing going on where a DL pilot is junior to 9E pilots, but we would still be coming in at 20 (maybe more) per month. It would be barely noticeable to those junior DL guys.
06-15-2022, 08:12 AM
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Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 213
06-15-2022, 08:50 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,079
Agreed but edv is gonna need something to make senior FOs upgrade and just not wait. Why I said give seniority numbers to CA in upgrade date order only
06-15-2022, 12:55 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 2,013
Exactly. I know a PSA pilot who just finished Sim training for PIC, he's out on his first IOE trip now. Last week he was interviewed and hired by Delta, starts in 6-8 weeks. Assuming PSA gives their pilots the same pay rates PDT and Envoy got he'll be taking a paycut from around $150/hr to Delta year 1 which I think is around $90/hr. He wants AA and will try to leverage the Delta CJO to get it but from what I read elsewhere that's not happening a lot.
06-15-2022, 07:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 661
Exactly. I know a PSA pilot who just finished Sim training for PIC, he's out on his first IOE trip now. Last week he was interviewed and hired by Delta, starts in 6-8 weeks. Assuming PSA gives their pilots the same pay rates PDT and Envoy got he'll be taking a paycut from around $150/hr to Delta year 1 which I think is around $90/hr. He wants AA and will try to leverage the Delta CJO to get it but from what I read elsewhere that's not happening a lot.
06-16-2022, 06:36 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 96
I created this account just to come on here and combat the disinformation and doom and gloom that is posted for people considering Endeavor.
Of all the info I got about 90% of the information I got from this forum lacked perspective. Meaning some of it was true but lacked additional info I needed to make an informed decision. Im not pointing fingers, nor am I here to argue with anyone. Simply, some perspective for anyone considering Endeavor. Especially For you young guys putting in apps, and I get it, it’s hard to get solid info until you are in the industry or at least on property. Just consider this forum may not have what your looking for or at least not 100% accurate.
For transparency I’m in new hire training and don’t have any line experience, however my experience with the company so far has been nothing but positive.
For all the new hires out there and the guys putting in apps, you can stop with the hand wringing. You cannot play 3D chess and have all the answers for two years down the road. You will have to choose a regional and “pay your dues” so to speak to get to a legacy. But there has never and I mean ever been a better time to be a regional pilot. Companies are literately competing to get you on property. That benefits everyone here.
A couple of points.
#1 if your a line pilot who is cruising through your Regional career fat dumb and happy, would you log on to some forum to complain about your regional? No, you wouldn’t. So perspective #1 is the majority of opinion you get from this forum comes from people salty enough to complain. You can find them here and in every military unit in the world. Every job has them really. No one I’ve met at the company takes this forum seriously. Find a buddy that works here or call pilot recruitment and get actual info. Don’t base your decision off the rumor mill.
#2 A regionals pay chart isn’t the only decision you need to consider. Do you know what a Non-compete clause is ? Do you know how it works? Did you know that in the three year window you work for some AA regionals when you quit you can’t work for another airline for 12 months? Others have a two year non compete. The point is you won’t just be able to jump to your dream mainline job when you get your hours and you may have to pay back some of your bonus. Something to consider especially since Endeavor doesn’t have a non compete at least for now for FO’s. So you only owe them for ATP if you leave within 12 months from hire. In this hiring boom that’s something to think about. How much money and seniority are you giving away in that year that you’d otherwise be at a major? Do you want to be under contract if you don’t have to be?
#3 Why are all the regionals coming out with bonus and pay increases? Because they need pilots and they need them for more than 12 months. Especially with training taking 4-8 months. So some companies are offering you captain pay at 750 hours. Now why would they do that? Could it be because they are losing FO’s to the legacies who hit that hour mark? And that reduces their CA pool and LCA pool? 1500 +750, you do the math. But those guys are getting hired at the majors. It’s just like the military, they do not offer a bonus unless it benefits them. Just two years of seniority is a lot at a major in this hiring boom. If someone were to offer you some free money, wouldn’t you ask if there is a catch? It’s the same, think of these gimmicks as a way of them asking you to stay at the regionals for 4 or 5 years and then it’ll make sense. The point is the money may only be there if you choose to stay longer than most regional guys would in this hiring environment.
#4 Endeavor hasn’t even had a chance to respond. Whatever the AA wholly owned have will be bargaining chips come negotiation time. I was once told chase quality of life and the money will come. From my vantage point that seems to be the case at any airline with ALPA representation. Republic got a pay raise not that long ago and I think the united regional did as well.
#5 You have to roll the dice somewhere. In my experience every regional I interviewed with was a gamble. On the base I would get and in the plane I would get and there was no way around it. The best advice I can give is to rack and stack them according to your own risk and reward scale and select the one with the acceptable amount of risk you are comfortable with. That said I don’t see many regionals that I would personally say are so bad I couldn’t work there. Are you flying? Yeah. Are you getting paid well? Yeah. Is there opportunity to move up in the company or other companies? Yeah. Anybody flying at a regional right now has a good shot to be at a major or LLC of their choice.
#6 Regional life is a stepping stone or a permanent job selection depending on the person. There are too many factors that go into a decision like choosing a regional, like pay, to bases, to aircraft, and even to class start dates. It can be overwhelming. That said I’ve looked at the seniority list at EDV and there are a lot of people who have been here a long time. My instrument instructor has been here for 4 and is upgrading to Capt. He just took a years worth of salary in the form of a bonus directly into his bank account and will likely flow in 2 maybe 3 years. Regardless he is pretty happy with EDV. So they must be doing something right and the seniority list has plenty of folks just like my instrument instructor.
#7 For now EDV still has positive space. Go non rev or jump seat with these 92% loads and you’ll see its a nice perk. Yeah I know it may end in OCT and no, no one knows if we will keep it past that.
#8 Take everything with a grain of skepticism you hear on this forum. My advice is for the new hires wondering if they are making the right choice. I have no line experience. I will be a two leg commute to NYC. Yes that will suck. But it seems pretty plausible I can domicile somewhere else in a year. By the time I get done with training I’m 5-8 months to that goal with a regional I may only be at for a year or maybe a little more. I got the plane I wanted, the 2nd base I wanted and pretty happy with the choice I made. I have some cons with this job for sure but many pros as well. Don’t kid yourself it’ll be that way anywhere. Yes 8 dollars an hour more would be great but that’s not enough that I have FOMO yet.
Good luck to you young guys pulling the trigger on a regional. I think you’ll be fine no matter where you go.
But whatever you do be skeptical of the guys that say WHY WOULD YOU COME HERE ? OMG it’s so bad here, it’s like a grog….blah…blah..blah. At least find out why they have that perspective.
Of all the info I got about 90% of the information I got from this forum lacked perspective. Meaning some of it was true but lacked additional info I needed to make an informed decision. Im not pointing fingers, nor am I here to argue with anyone. Simply, some perspective for anyone considering Endeavor. Especially For you young guys putting in apps, and I get it, it’s hard to get solid info until you are in the industry or at least on property. Just consider this forum may not have what your looking for or at least not 100% accurate.
For transparency I’m in new hire training and don’t have any line experience, however my experience with the company so far has been nothing but positive.
For all the new hires out there and the guys putting in apps, you can stop with the hand wringing. You cannot play 3D chess and have all the answers for two years down the road. You will have to choose a regional and “pay your dues” so to speak to get to a legacy. But there has never and I mean ever been a better time to be a regional pilot. Companies are literately competing to get you on property. That benefits everyone here.
A couple of points.
#1 if your a line pilot who is cruising through your Regional career fat dumb and happy, would you log on to some forum to complain about your regional? No, you wouldn’t. So perspective #1 is the majority of opinion you get from this forum comes from people salty enough to complain. You can find them here and in every military unit in the world. Every job has them really. No one I’ve met at the company takes this forum seriously. Find a buddy that works here or call pilot recruitment and get actual info. Don’t base your decision off the rumor mill.
#2 A regionals pay chart isn’t the only decision you need to consider. Do you know what a Non-compete clause is ? Do you know how it works? Did you know that in the three year window you work for some AA regionals when you quit you can’t work for another airline for 12 months? Others have a two year non compete. The point is you won’t just be able to jump to your dream mainline job when you get your hours and you may have to pay back some of your bonus. Something to consider especially since Endeavor doesn’t have a non compete at least for now for FO’s. So you only owe them for ATP if you leave within 12 months from hire. In this hiring boom that’s something to think about. How much money and seniority are you giving away in that year that you’d otherwise be at a major? Do you want to be under contract if you don’t have to be?
#3 Why are all the regionals coming out with bonus and pay increases? Because they need pilots and they need them for more than 12 months. Especially with training taking 4-8 months. So some companies are offering you captain pay at 750 hours. Now why would they do that? Could it be because they are losing FO’s to the legacies who hit that hour mark? And that reduces their CA pool and LCA pool? 1500 +750, you do the math. But those guys are getting hired at the majors. It’s just like the military, they do not offer a bonus unless it benefits them. Just two years of seniority is a lot at a major in this hiring boom. If someone were to offer you some free money, wouldn’t you ask if there is a catch? It’s the same, think of these gimmicks as a way of them asking you to stay at the regionals for 4 or 5 years and then it’ll make sense. The point is the money may only be there if you choose to stay longer than most regional guys would in this hiring environment.
#4 Endeavor hasn’t even had a chance to respond. Whatever the AA wholly owned have will be bargaining chips come negotiation time. I was once told chase quality of life and the money will come. From my vantage point that seems to be the case at any airline with ALPA representation. Republic got a pay raise not that long ago and I think the united regional did as well.
#5 You have to roll the dice somewhere. In my experience every regional I interviewed with was a gamble. On the base I would get and in the plane I would get and there was no way around it. The best advice I can give is to rack and stack them according to your own risk and reward scale and select the one with the acceptable amount of risk you are comfortable with. That said I don’t see many regionals that I would personally say are so bad I couldn’t work there. Are you flying? Yeah. Are you getting paid well? Yeah. Is there opportunity to move up in the company or other companies? Yeah. Anybody flying at a regional right now has a good shot to be at a major or LLC of their choice.
#6 Regional life is a stepping stone or a permanent job selection depending on the person. There are too many factors that go into a decision like choosing a regional, like pay, to bases, to aircraft, and even to class start dates. It can be overwhelming. That said I’ve looked at the seniority list at EDV and there are a lot of people who have been here a long time. My instrument instructor has been here for 4 and is upgrading to Capt. He just took a years worth of salary in the form of a bonus directly into his bank account and will likely flow in 2 maybe 3 years. Regardless he is pretty happy with EDV. So they must be doing something right and the seniority list has plenty of folks just like my instrument instructor.
#7 For now EDV still has positive space. Go non rev or jump seat with these 92% loads and you’ll see its a nice perk. Yeah I know it may end in OCT and no, no one knows if we will keep it past that.
#8 Take everything with a grain of skepticism you hear on this forum. My advice is for the new hires wondering if they are making the right choice. I have no line experience. I will be a two leg commute to NYC. Yes that will suck. But it seems pretty plausible I can domicile somewhere else in a year. By the time I get done with training I’m 5-8 months to that goal with a regional I may only be at for a year or maybe a little more. I got the plane I wanted, the 2nd base I wanted and pretty happy with the choice I made. I have some cons with this job for sure but many pros as well. Don’t kid yourself it’ll be that way anywhere. Yes 8 dollars an hour more would be great but that’s not enough that I have FOMO yet.
Good luck to you young guys pulling the trigger on a regional. I think you’ll be fine no matter where you go.
But whatever you do be skeptical of the guys that say WHY WOULD YOU COME HERE ? OMG it’s so bad here, it’s like a grog….blah…blah..blah. At least find out why they have that perspective.
06-16-2022, 10:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 118
The only way forward, if they want to retain the current model, is a DL seniority number and more money.
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