Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
12-22-2017, 03:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 550
The FD sucks on TO. People don’t hold V2+10 to 1000AGL per the SOP. I like to take off raw data unless it’s RNAV DEP it makes you more conscious of what the plane is doing. I find it much easier to hold V2+10 to 1000 and then fly the profile. I encourage my FO’s (which usually haven’t seen raw data TO ever to do it) they almost always remark at how much easier it is the fly the plane that way. They learn more in the few flights with me about actually flying the plane then in all of OE. I only encourage them to give it a shot because I am very comfortable hand flying the plane and keep a close eye on them. Also I stress fly smooth and if they can’t fly smooth them autopilot and FD come on (rarely have I had to do that). If rev 4 says no raw data I will do what they say but for now I am going to enjoy my raw data.
Just a side note I was introduced to raw data on initial FO IOE by a wise check airman. I thank him for showing me the way.
Children of the magenta line is an worth wild YouTube search and talk. Automation is great and keeps you out of trouble but when it doesn’t work or fails at an important time I think it’s wise to actually know how to hand fly. The only way to keep those skills sharp is to actually practice when everything is working.
Ok rant over. Happy holidays. Let’s have a great 2018.
Just a side note I was introduced to raw data on initial FO IOE by a wise check airman. I thank him for showing me the way.
Children of the magenta line is an worth wild YouTube search and talk. Automation is great and keeps you out of trouble but when it doesn’t work or fails at an important time I think it’s wise to actually know how to hand fly. The only way to keep those skills sharp is to actually practice when everything is working.
Ok rant over. Happy holidays. Let’s have a great 2018.
Last edited by seminolepilot; 12-22-2017 at 03:58 PM.
12-22-2017, 03:35 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
I find it ironic that someone in the company feels the FD will make for safer takeoffs, but we are told to take it off for landing because it provides erroneous information. Psssssttt... it can do the same thing on T/O, too!
It provides a decent aimpoint for initial yoke pull, beyond that I pretty much ignore it. The same thing can be done with a smooth pitch pull to 12°, then adjust for speed. As a person who has flown for 30 years without magenta, I f don’t find the FD to be all that great of an “invention”. It can help, or it can get one into trouble. Depends on your situational awareness of other cues around you.
It provides a decent aimpoint for initial yoke pull, beyond that I pretty much ignore it. The same thing can be done with a smooth pitch pull to 12°, then adjust for speed. As a person who has flown for 30 years without magenta, I f don’t find the FD to be all that great of an “invention”. It can help, or it can get one into trouble. Depends on your situational awareness of other cues around you.
12-22-2017, 03:39 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
We fly pretty similarly. I prefer syncing the speed vs. depending on a busy PM spinning my speed knob for me.
I also think the PM should set climb thrust after turning the climb carats on. I always do that for my PF. They are focused on a departure, particularly if hand flying, so no need to divert their attention from the instruments. Seems silly to say “climb carats available”, then expect them to adjust throttles themselves. I can set N1 1-1.5% over current climb carats, and they don’t have to worry about thrust levers for about 20,00 feet or more.
I also think the PM should set climb thrust after turning the climb carats on. I always do that for my PF. They are focused on a departure, particularly if hand flying, so no need to divert their attention from the instruments. Seems silly to say “climb carats available”, then expect them to adjust throttles themselves. I can set N1 1-1.5% over current climb carats, and they don’t have to worry about thrust levers for about 20,00 feet or more.
That’s how my OE was when I started. Hand fly when it was convienient and know how to fly without the automation. Maybe it’s changed in the past few years. I also use the button on the back of the yoke to set the speed after TO especially if the PM is busy on the radio, so maybe it’s me that’s a little different. I remembered reading somewhere earlier this year that the FAA was going to put more emphasis on handflying.
12-22-2017, 03:58 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 550
We fly pretty similarly. I prefer syncing the speed vs. depending on a busy PM spinning my speed knob for me.
I also think the PM should set climb thrust after turning the climb carats on. I always do that for my PF. They are focused on a departure, particularly if hand flying, so no need to divert their attention from the instruments. Seems silly to say “climb carats available”, then expect them to adjust throttles themselves. I can set N1 1-1.5% over current climb carats, and they don’t have to worry about thrust levers for about 20,00 feet or more.
I also think the PM should set climb thrust after turning the climb carats on. I always do that for my PF. They are focused on a departure, particularly if hand flying, so no need to divert their attention from the instruments. Seems silly to say “climb carats available”, then expect them to adjust throttles themselves. I can set N1 1-1.5% over current climb carats, and they don’t have to worry about thrust levers for about 20,00 feet or more.
12-22-2017, 04:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: CaptFo
Posts: 997
The FD sucks on TO. People don’t hold V2+10 to 1000AGL per the SOP. I like to take off raw data unless it’s RNAV DEP it makes you more conscious of what the plane is doing. I find it much easier to hold V2+10 to 1000 and then fly the profile. I encourage my FO’s (which usually haven’t seen raw data TO ever to do it) they almost always remark at how much easier it is the fly the plane that way. They learn more in the few flights with me about actually flying the plane then in all of OE. I only encourage them to give it a shot because I am very comfortable hand flying the plane and keep a close eye on them. Also I stress fly smooth and if they can’t fly smooth them autopilot and FD come on (rarely have I had to do that). If rev 4 says no raw data I will do what they say but for now I am going to enjoy my raw data.
Just a side note I was introduced to raw data on initial FO IOE by a wise check airman. I thank him for showing me the way.
Children of the magenta line is an worth wild YouTube search and talk. Automation is great and keeps you out of trouble but when it doesn’t work or fails at an important time I think it’s wise to actually know how to hand fly. The only way to keep those skills sharp is to actually practice when everything is working.
Ok rant over. Happy holidays. Let’s have a great 2018.
Just a side note I was introduced to raw data on initial FO IOE by a wise check airman. I thank him for showing me the way.
Children of the magenta line is an worth wild YouTube search and talk. Automation is great and keeps you out of trouble but when it doesn’t work or fails at an important time I think it’s wise to actually know how to hand fly. The only way to keep those skills sharp is to actually practice when everything is working.
Ok rant over. Happy holidays. Let’s have a great 2018.
12-22-2017, 04:53 PM
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Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 1,814
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12-22-2017, 06:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
Well, THIS PM does. But no. We are to xfer bleeds, shut down the APU, select CLB on the FMS, and announce “climb carats available”. But I set it, if the guy is hand flying. If already on A/P, not such a big deal, so I let him do it.
Last edited by HighFlight; 12-22-2017 at 06:39 PM.
12-22-2017, 06:57 PM
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Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
It says, essentially, that airlines should encourage more hand flying. And that a few hand-flying tasks were recently added to the required 121 training tasks:
1. Manually controlled slow flight
2. Manually controlled loss of reliable airspeed
3. Manually controlled instrument departure and arrival
4. Upset recovery maneuvers
5. Stall prevention and stall recovery
6. Recovery from bounced landing
2. Manually controlled loss of reliable airspeed
3. Manually controlled instrument departure and arrival
4. Upset recovery maneuvers
5. Stall prevention and stall recovery
6. Recovery from bounced landing
Last edited by vessbot; 12-22-2017 at 07:11 PM.
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