Originally Posted by 2dubs

That my friend is exactly my point. Delta is big enough and bad enough to say "Toodles" It is a mistake to think we have the power to move Delta from a position they do not want to be moved from. 16000 flights a day, sure it will hurt to throw us under the bus but remember in the big picture we are still small potatoes. We are not mainline and we do not have mainline clout.

Originally Posted by TalkTurkey

We are a far cry more important than some of you can come to terms with. Take value in that. Mesabah, you too. It's almost like you don't want anything good for this place. If we were just small potatoes, then there would be no reason to infuse cash into this place. I'm guessing it is going to be a pretty steep hike in pay if no quasi-flow (ill call it) is offered.

Now jumping one year from today, I believe the market will dictate the need for solid career progression. Delta will have to either pay eff loads or give progression. It's just what may be needed now; but certainly in the future. This is business turkey talk. I'm going to love it when all the NEVERs and WONTs CANTs etc that dominates the life of Mesabah turns out to be wrong.

Originally Posted by Casualinterest

We can keep pressing for flow after this this is passed, and if it happens it's going to happen through great performance, cost effectiveness, and professionalism. We're not going to hold them hostage until they agree to our demands. We keep voting no on a good TA won't they just rethink whether or not we're worth the trouble? That's what I'd do if I owned an airline...

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Originally Posted by Casualinterest

Right, I think we've lost sight of the most immediate pressing concern. The pay rates. By all accounts it's looking like this is about to be an 80-83 hour conversion. That's a pay cut no matter how you slice it. I'm still open minded enough to see that other substantial gains might be worth a yes, but from day one (ish) they've said this wasn't about flow and flow was never on the table. The only reason we're talking about it is because the rumor army started marching across the boards and flight decks. I can't believe how quickly we went to "we're going to get a staple" from, "Consequently, we removed flow from our counter proposal."

We can keep pressing for flow after this this is passed, and if it happens it's going to happen through great performance, cost effectiveness, and professionalism. We're not going to hold them hostage until they agree to our demands. We keep voting no on a good TA won't they just rethink whether or not we're worth the trouble? That's what I'd do if I owned an airline...

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Originally Posted by Casualinterest

Right, I think we've lost sight of the most immediate pressing concern. The pay rates. By all accounts it's looking like this is about to be an 80-83 hour conversion. That's a pay cut no matter how you slice it. I'm still open minded enough to see that other substantial gains might be worth a yes, but from day one (ish) they've said this wasn't about flow and flow was never on the table. The only reason we're talking about it is because the rumor army started marching across the boards and flight decks. I can't believe how quickly we went to "we're going to get a staple" from, "Consequently, we removed flow from our counter proposal."

We can keep pressing for flow after this this is passed, and if it happens it's going to happen through great performance, cost effectiveness, and professionalism. We're not going to hold them hostage until they agree to our demands. We keep voting no on a good TA won't they just rethink whether or not we're worth the trouble? That's what I'd do if I owned an airline...

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Originally Posted by Bartok

Alot more pilots average over than 83 hours than less.

This is a pay raise for most pilots, not a cut.

Originally Posted by wmichflyer

A pay cut for any pilot is wrong. Don't give me the line about "just pick up a trip". Nobody should have to work more to avoid a pay cut.

Originally Posted by wmichflyer

A pay cut for any pilot is wrong. Don't give me the line about "just pick up a trip". Nobody should have to work more to avoid a pay cut.