Kforekyle

I don't know if they will flow, but since you said they won't, I guess they never will. Let's negotiate pay cuts for everyone. I'm sure that's attainable.

WhiskeyDelta

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. But until you've looked the upper management at Delta that would make the flow decision in the eyes while they've discussed this topic like I have maybe you'd understand flow is a nonstarter.

My point is you won't get anywhere attempting to negotiate flow. Don't waste perfectly good capital on it when there are many other items that have just as good long term benefits.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bornflying

I believe a reasonable compromise to a flow is to negotiate a certain hire rate from DGI. So it's ~65% now, negotiate a minimum 80% 9E DGI hire rate and Endeavor DGI must be the largest source of pilot hiring. That gives Delta the ability to weed out people who think they are entitled (as I understand it this was a big problem from Deltas perspective in the past) but gives a pretty decent "flow" to Delta.

While we are at it, I think a good compromise on pay is simply convert bonuses and guarantee to a base salary plus hourly pay for anything over 75 hours/mo. So first year FO pay right now is roughly $27,000/year guarantee + $30,000/year bonus = $57,000/year salary at 75hrs/mo (plus per diem but I don't count that). Everything over 75 hrs is paid hourly as now. Salary increases with years worked/upgrade as now. Total annual average compensation to be adjusted annually pegged at the 75th percentile (or whatever we are currently at) of all US regional airline pay. Salaries pegged at 75% of total average pay. Unlimited call in honests (w/ 2 listings). 10 year contract.

In my opinion I don't think this is asking too much or giving away too much.

CBreezy

You have the spirit of negotiating but are painfully ignorant of how to actually do it. You can't walk into the room with an outrageous high-ball proposal and expect anything other than a painful low-ball rebuttal. If you walk into the room and say, "We want Delta rates, nothing less" and if I was in management, I would say, "How about we just let the bonus expire?"

Yes, pilots currently have the upper hand because of the shortage, but that doesn't justify negotiating in bad faith. You can't expect the company to come to the table in good faith if you don't either.

CBreezy

I like this post. Lots of good ideas. I would argue that acceptance rate isn't a good measure. It appears like you are asking Delta to change their hiring practices. Maybe negotiate some kind of percentage in each new class? I hear the current waits are pretty high and that might reduce the pool for DGI.

As for money, I say keep it simple. If I were negotiating, I would go in with bonus conversion into rates based on a min guarantee month plus x% for cost of living. But, you have to understand that being your best offer, knowing that it's going to be far and away the best rates in the industry, a compromise from the company based on data.

One last thought, keep in mind that recruiting tools are company wants. Things like commuter hotels, commuter clauses, etc, things that they can put on an advertisement, are things that can be leveraged for additional pilot gains even though those things are seen as pilot "wants."

Casualinterest

Union made it sound like rooms were never going to happen, and that a stipend for NY was unlikely. Co domicile people might get transportation allowance to get between but that's it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

CBreezy

I don't think a COLA is likely at the airlines. Not sure why they they think commuter hotels is a non-starter. It's a very cheap recruiting tool.

Five93H

It's not cheap in negotiations. Everything is costed. Do we devote $X to pay rates, or split it between pay rates and hotels? Hotels benefit a portion of pilots. Higher pay rates benefit everybody and can be used on hotels or anything else. 4 hotels a month, or highest pay rates of all competition? No brainer.

CBreezy

You don't negotiate for commuter hotels. It's not a pilot "want". It's a company recruiting tool. If you make it publicly a pilot want, the company gets a recruiting tool from pilot negotiating capital. In that sense, it isn't included in the costed analysis in negotiations.

You could also say that a better hiring agreement is also a company want right now. If it helps fill classes, it is a company want. It also helps keep longevity down which saves the company money.

jethikoki

DAL management and or other airline management are not the problem. Never were. Management will always be trying to pay employees the least. My question is why should DAL or indirectly Endeavor management pay us higher wages and allow better benefits when ALPA National and mainline pilots do not support regional pilots? ALPA National does not even consider us (regional pilots) as real pilots. Only real pilots work at a mainline. If a mainline management knows that ALPA National will not support its pilots it supposedly represents, I don't think management has much to worry about in its negotiations.