ShyGuy

That's a new separate issue. I was talking about LOA 50 and the original intent of this in the first place. It's essentially created a B-scale for FOs. You had FOs getting paid a different wage scale depending on individual circumstance. Completely okay in the corporate America individual-market in which you negotiate your own pay and benefits, but completely wrong in an airline union setting where you have one scale for FOs and one scale for CAs. Did you not read the part where I said the company offered FOs a pay increase for year 1 and year 2, and it was turned down by the union?

Nantonaku

This is a pretty useless conversation at this point, plus the injustice done by this LOA pales in comparison to the Bloch award. I would venture a guess that there are 3 people still collecting under this LOA? Maybe 5? After 15-04, 0?

Gearswinger

Gotta be honest, no. I just tune out everything you write. Your opinion and history are useless. Go away.

Gearswinger

I'll add this, Shyguy. You don't work for Endeavor. You never have. Pinnacle doesn't exist, same with Mesaba and Colgan. This is a new airline with completely different management, contract, union reps, most procedures, and a large number of aircraft. Referencing what happened during contract negotiations at 9e years ago would be like a Northwest guy saying that DL's contract is unfair because of some previous Northwest situation.

9E's past is irrelevant. So is XJ and 9L. None of them exist. Move on. Extending an existing LOA does not harm ANYONE. It only benefits, and shows a commitment to pilots who are currently on property.

ShyGuy

You can tune me out and say what I said is useless.

However..........

You can't deny a fact.

And that fact was that basically a B scale existed for FOs with LOA 50. You had regular FOs making a certain contractual rate, and then downgraded CAs to FOs making a LOA 50 rate which was their Captain rate. So to recap, you have First Officers in both cases, flying right seat, doing the same job as every other FO, but some making FO wages and some making CA wages. That's two scales and basically fits a good definition of "B-scale." You can justify whatever you want however you want, but the fact remains that it is what it is: Same exact aircraft and seat, yet different scale.


Correct, I was 9E not Endeavor. As for the bolded portion, how do you define large? Certainly not as large as it was in 2010, 2011, and 2012. The past history is not that long ago. You referencing NWA was a merger in 2008 and irrelevant here. The fact is 9E FOs were denied a LOA that would increase wages for years 1 and 2, and then later once the situation deteriorated and CAs were being downgraded and the company desperate, downgraded guys got to keep their CA rate while flying as FOs. It's just wrong what happened, and to understand that, one has to look at the historical context. Anyway extending this LOA 50 wasn't so much the issue as the issue of LOA 50 itself and what it allowed.

Gearswinger

I was referring to a large number of the aircraft being different than Pinnacle, not fleet size, we have 81 aircraft that were not originally Pinnacle, along with our procedures etc etc.

You are right, Northwest wasn't a good pilot group to use as an example there. TWA would be better, and makes your continued harping about things that happened at a company that was purchased in bankruptcy and changed even more ridiculous.

Was LOA 50 fair? No. The pilots didn't get to vote on that. The union and company felt it was necessary to retain pilots while they got their turn around plan in place, and judging by our operation, it seems like it worked, whether anyone behind the small group who benefited by it likes it or not. Unlike YOU, I was effected by it. I got pushed down in base, QOL suffered, and got pushed farther from upgrade from it. Luckily I'm someone who can accept that there are some things that I can not change, and move on from being ****ed off.

I guess really it comes down to this. You can impotently cry about things that happened that can not be changed (LOA 50, or if you're truly pathetic a TA years ago at an airline that doesn't exist anymore and you left 4 years ago), or you can move on and accept that things happen, not everyone is going to get exactly equal slices of pie, and make the best of what you have while trying to improve the future. Life is significantly better for you and those around you when you stop pointing and crying at the other kid's yummy candy and just live your life.

CFin

If anyone is looking at Endeavor and is concerned about the last few pages of negativity I will tell you attitudes are much different. You are 99.9% more likely to fly with a guy like Gearswinger than fly with a guy like ShyGuy. Most everyone that is still here are excited about the future and are increadibly welcoming to new hires.

VoiceOfReason

All the more reason to encourage interested candidates to stay OFF these types of forums. Thanks for the note. It does sound like you guys have a lot of good going on right now - DGI...20k...planes coming back. Congrats and have fun!

24Whiskey

I've been on the line for 2 weeks now and I couldn't agree more. Everybody I've encountered has been incredibly helpful and understanding. I'm happy with my decision to fly here.

Avroman

It should be really interesting around here come next summer.... the end of the Bloch quotas coupled with the last of the captains that have CJO's under the SSP (meaning we will see a larger number of FO's quitting as they will be finally getting to go to Delta) We could easily see a repeat of 2014. How much more "retention bonus" money is daddy willing to throw this way to keep Endeavor staffed?