March, 2015 Endeavor gouge.
04-11-2015, 08:51 AM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 679
Bingo. But I wouldn't bet on a merger or staple. Delta can just move the aircraft from the Endeavor certificate to the DL certificate, interview and hire the pilots it wants, and can the others. Why would you merge and pay a Senior captain DL pay rates when you can move the planes, hire them as new hires and pay them year one pay?
I live in DL country, have a lot of friends there, and commute on DL all the time. Everyone you talk to thinks there will be little if any outsourced flying at DL in ten years.
Pilots have a problem thinking like accountants. Its all about saving cost and maximizing profit. You outsource something because the hit you take in quality is greatly offset by the reduced cost. If the product you are outsourcing has little if any cost savings, why outsource it? Then you insource it.
Right now Endeavor is paying $20,000 extra a year which is approximately $20 an hour. New hire pay rates are $25 an hour. If Endeavor is forced to pay 200% for pickups then you are producing the product (flying) for $70/hour ($20+$25+$25). What is Delta's new hire payrate on the 717? $70 an hour. Its not just Delta. TSA just got a $10,000 bonus plus everyone can see 200% coming like a freight train. So we will potentially be performing flying at $58 an hour ($24+$24+$10) and United's new hire pay rate is $66 an hour.
Keep in mind under these fee for departure contracts regionals are guaranteed a profit margin so mainline has to pick up the extra cost to guarantee that margin
The numbers are similar when you look at CA rates vs CA narrowbody pay rates. So if you don't have huge savings anymore then why are you going to outsource? Insourcing will be the trend and in 5-10 years it is likely all the large RJ flying will be perfomed at mainline and the few regionals that are left will go back to flying pro rate contracts to small destinations with EMB 170 and MRJ type aircraft because they have CASMs that are competitive with narrowbodies.
Everyone that wants to be at mainline will be. Some will choose to stay at regionals because they will return to more profitable and stable pro rate flying similiar to what they performed in the late 70s and mid 80s before the advent of fee for departure contracts.
Endeavor is ahead of everyone in the bonus game because they got to the critical level first. As this shortage progresses, more and more bonuses will be offered to the point that even the slowpokes at United will figure it out.
I give RA and his NWA boys at DL credit. They have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to the accounting. They are ruthless as hell and would sell their mothers to make a nickel, but are very shrewd businessmen.
I live in DL country, have a lot of friends there, and commute on DL all the time. Everyone you talk to thinks there will be little if any outsourced flying at DL in ten years.
Pilots have a problem thinking like accountants. Its all about saving cost and maximizing profit. You outsource something because the hit you take in quality is greatly offset by the reduced cost. If the product you are outsourcing has little if any cost savings, why outsource it? Then you insource it.
Right now Endeavor is paying $20,000 extra a year which is approximately $20 an hour. New hire pay rates are $25 an hour. If Endeavor is forced to pay 200% for pickups then you are producing the product (flying) for $70/hour ($20+$25+$25). What is Delta's new hire payrate on the 717? $70 an hour. Its not just Delta. TSA just got a $10,000 bonus plus everyone can see 200% coming like a freight train. So we will potentially be performing flying at $58 an hour ($24+$24+$10) and United's new hire pay rate is $66 an hour.
Keep in mind under these fee for departure contracts regionals are guaranteed a profit margin so mainline has to pick up the extra cost to guarantee that margin
The numbers are similar when you look at CA rates vs CA narrowbody pay rates. So if you don't have huge savings anymore then why are you going to outsource? Insourcing will be the trend and in 5-10 years it is likely all the large RJ flying will be perfomed at mainline and the few regionals that are left will go back to flying pro rate contracts to small destinations with EMB 170 and MRJ type aircraft because they have CASMs that are competitive with narrowbodies.
Everyone that wants to be at mainline will be. Some will choose to stay at regionals because they will return to more profitable and stable pro rate flying similiar to what they performed in the late 70s and mid 80s before the advent of fee for departure contracts.
Endeavor is ahead of everyone in the bonus game because they got to the critical level first. As this shortage progresses, more and more bonuses will be offered to the point that even the slowpokes at United will figure it out.
I give RA and his NWA boys at DL credit. They have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to the accounting. They are ruthless as hell and would sell their mothers to make a nickel, but are very shrewd businessmen.
DL can see the writing on the wall. People can choose to not believe in a pilot shortage, but the numbers are what the numbers are.
The fact that DL is working on an Ab Initio program should be an indicator of what the future holds.
04-11-2015, 09:34 AM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 507
Bingo. But I wouldn't bet on a merger or staple. Delta can just move the aircraft from the Endeavor certificate to the DL certificate, interview and hire the pilots it wants, and can the others. Why would you merge and pay a Senior captain DL pay rates when you can move the planes, hire them as new hires and pay them year one pay?
I live in DL country, have a lot of friends there, and commute on DL all the time. Everyone you talk to thinks there will be little if any outsourced flying at DL in ten years.
Pilots have a problem thinking like accountants. Its all about saving cost and maximizing profit. You outsource something because the hit you take in quality is greatly offset by the reduced cost. If the product you are outsourcing has little if any cost savings, why outsource it? Then you insource it.
Right now Endeavor is paying $20,000 extra a year which is approximately $20 an hour. New hire pay rates are $25 an hour. If Endeavor is forced to pay 200% for pickups then you are producing the product (flying) for $70/hour ($20+$25+$25). What is Delta's new hire payrate on the 717? $70 an hour. Its not just Delta. TSA just got a $10,000 bonus plus everyone can see 200% coming like a freight train. So we will potentially be performing flying at $58 an hour ($24+$24+$10) and United's new hire pay rate is $66 an hour.
Keep in mind under these fee for departure contracts regionals are guaranteed a profit margin so mainline has to pick up the extra cost to guarantee that margin
The numbers are similar when you look at CA rates vs CA narrowbody pay rates. So if you don't have huge savings anymore then why are you going to outsource? Insourcing will be the trend and in 5-10 years it is likely all the large RJ flying will be perfomed at mainline and the few regionals that are left will go back to flying pro rate contracts to small destinations with EMB 170 and MRJ type aircraft because they have CASMs that are competitive with narrowbodies.
Everyone that wants to be at mainline will be. Some will choose to stay at regionals because they will return to more profitable and stable pro rate flying similiar to what they performed in the late 70s and mid 80s before the advent of fee for departure contracts.
Endeavor is ahead of everyone in the bonus game because they got to the critical level first. As this shortage progresses, more and more bonuses will be offered to the point that even the slowpokes at United will figure it out.
I give RA and his NWA boys at DL credit. They have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to the accounting. They are ruthless as hell and would sell their mothers to make a nickel, but are very shrewd businessmen.
I live in DL country, have a lot of friends there, and commute on DL all the time. Everyone you talk to thinks there will be little if any outsourced flying at DL in ten years.
Pilots have a problem thinking like accountants. Its all about saving cost and maximizing profit. You outsource something because the hit you take in quality is greatly offset by the reduced cost. If the product you are outsourcing has little if any cost savings, why outsource it? Then you insource it.
Right now Endeavor is paying $20,000 extra a year which is approximately $20 an hour. New hire pay rates are $25 an hour. If Endeavor is forced to pay 200% for pickups then you are producing the product (flying) for $70/hour ($20+$25+$25). What is Delta's new hire payrate on the 717? $70 an hour. Its not just Delta. TSA just got a $10,000 bonus plus everyone can see 200% coming like a freight train. So we will potentially be performing flying at $58 an hour ($24+$24+$10) and United's new hire pay rate is $66 an hour.
Keep in mind under these fee for departure contracts regionals are guaranteed a profit margin so mainline has to pick up the extra cost to guarantee that margin
The numbers are similar when you look at CA rates vs CA narrowbody pay rates. So if you don't have huge savings anymore then why are you going to outsource? Insourcing will be the trend and in 5-10 years it is likely all the large RJ flying will be perfomed at mainline and the few regionals that are left will go back to flying pro rate contracts to small destinations with EMB 170 and MRJ type aircraft because they have CASMs that are competitive with narrowbodies.
Everyone that wants to be at mainline will be. Some will choose to stay at regionals because they will return to more profitable and stable pro rate flying similiar to what they performed in the late 70s and mid 80s before the advent of fee for departure contracts.
Endeavor is ahead of everyone in the bonus game because they got to the critical level first. As this shortage progresses, more and more bonuses will be offered to the point that even the slowpokes at United will figure it out.
I give RA and his NWA boys at DL credit. They have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to the accounting. They are ruthless as hell and would sell their mothers to make a nickel, but are very shrewd businessmen.
04-11-2015, 10:42 AM
#164
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 91
I don't think Delta can take just the airplanes without taking the pilots. We can't staff the a/c we have right now. Hire who they want? The ssp is at 65% right now. We have 4 sims for 81 ac. does not add up! They are going to add more ac. A very good flow or a staple with a fence is probably what they are going to do.
04-11-2015, 10:58 AM
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 507
A good flow or staple will attract more pilots from other airlines. Taking the 200s back to fill in the gap until the new 900s come online. Last year bought a brand new 900 sim (18mil.) Converted a 200 sim to a 900 sim. (1mil.) 2 existing sims.=4 900 sims. If you don't think something is very big on the horizon you are fooling your self.
04-11-2015, 11:58 AM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
I don't think Delta can take just the airplanes without taking the pilots. We can't staff the a/c we have right now. Hire who they want? The ssp is at 65% right now. We have 4 sims for 81 ac. does not add up! They are going to add more ac. A very good flow or a staple with a fence is probably what they are going to do.
04-11-2015, 12:00 PM
#167
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 91
A good flow or staple will attract more pilots from other airlines. Taking the 200s back to fill in the gap until the new 900s come online. Last year bought a brand new 900 sim (18mil.) Converted a 200 sim to a 900 sim. (1mil.) 2 existing sims.=4 900 sims. If you don't think something is very big on the horizon you are fooling your self.
04-11-2015, 12:29 PM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Do you even think or do research before you speak? Maybe educate yourself on the differences between the Comair contract, the age of Comair's 200 fleet, the average longevity at Comair, and the fact that Delta has piggy backed Endeavor to almost every major function for further cost efficiency. If you do exactly that you will see that other than Delta owning Endeavor they have very little in common. Your Comair reference is sounding childish, as you offer no facts beyond that
04-11-2015, 12:47 PM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,735
What does Comair have anything to do with Endeavor? So they were both own by Delta, and? If you're saying Endeavor will be like Comair. Why not just let Pinnacle shut down during BK. Why give them new airplanes? Why drag them out this long. Why throw in $80 million in bonus. Why keep spending money on them over and over. It's been 3 years since they BK, you would think Delta would have transfered all the airplane to someone else by now if they wanted Endeavor gone.
04-11-2015, 12:56 PM
#170
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 91
Do you even think or do research before you speak? Maybe educate yourself on the differences between the Comair contract, the age of Comair's 200 fleet, the average longevity at Comair, and the fact that Delta has piggy backed Endeavor to almost every major function for further cost efficiency. If you do exactly that you will see that other than Delta owning Endeavor they have very little in common. Your Comair reference is sounding childish, as you offer no facts beyond that
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