80ktsClamp

And now you've just gotten completely lost. I think we're done for the night on this subject. Pour another drink and enjoy the ball game!

cencal83406

"If you get the pusher, ease off until it stops then pitch back into shaker". Not word for word, but close.

IBPilot

Moon, I've experienced one of your PC's and it was one of the most non-confrontational, laid back and fair checking events I have experienced at Pinnacle. Some people like 80knts and Alaska have such a burr about Pinnacle they will attack anyone who dares defend it. If you said you were solely business by the book just checking, as say it should be, they would complain that you set a bad tone or something. Can't please anyone. I think 80kts is just upset that Shyguy makes more disgruntled 9e posts than he does.

ebl14

I spent nearly 7 years and had god know how many PC's and Lofts at "the nickel". Training was tough, and for a new guy it was intimidating. After a few go-rounds through recurrent training I felt much more at ease, and never felt my job was in jeopardy. That being said, I studied fairly hard for each PC and was always prepared for a "type-ride" oral, just in case. The only time I actually encountered a very tough oral was on my two types rides at the company. I can say unequivocally, that there were never any curveballs or tricks, simply knowing what was laid out by the company always got me through, no problem. Now, looking back, I think it may have been a little overboard. But, we are all better for it. I can say after integration there was a noticeable gap in systems knowledge between the legacy 9E pilots and the others simply because we had to know more to feel comfortable in the events. I think there is middle ground somewhere between XJ and 9E that is the sweet spot for how a training department should guide the instructors. XJ is definitely too easy, if there is no threat of failure for underperforming what motivation does the student have to study and know his/her stuff? 9E was more dependent on having high quality instructors (there are many) use their own moral compass to conduct training events. My biggest gripe with the 9E training department, lack of consistency. Most of the time you would get the 5 minute oral and sometimes the 2 hour oral. I simply was always ready for the 2 hour oral, problem solved. I would still take my chances with the oral over the rote memorization of a test bank for that stupid written any day. In my experience if you are a professional and go in with the proper knowledge, you pass.

80ktsClamp

Nice personal attacks and shyguy deflection. I enjoyed my time at 9E and made some very good friends from those years...a number of whom are still there. As such, I keep up with things.

Now can you point out the errors in my posts in regard to the training department policies and culture at 9E in comparison to other departments with mature programs?

IBPilot

80kts, no personal attack there. Read your posts...you love taking a jab at 9e whenever you can. Especially the training dept. You can personally attack mooney but get upset when I state the obvious?
No need to call out your mistakes. Others covered it nicely with your lack of knowledge of stall training and 410 club.

80ktsClamp

I'm supportive when I can be supportive, and will call out faults as I see them. If someone jumps up and says the 9E training department is fine... they are either highly ignorant of the rest of the industry, or trying to sell you something for their gain.

I flew with the CA of the 410 club flight on his last flight he survived in a pilot seat... then had the pleasure of going through all the NTSB stuff as a result. I think my knowledge of that is pretty up to speed. So please, call out my mistakes on that as I remember it like yesterday.

You get so defensive of obvious faults of 9E... why? The topic at hand is schoolhouse policies and procedures, which are still around 30 years behind the current state of the industry. They somehow have not changed despite 2 fatal accidents. A training department should have constant interaction and adaptation to the line environment and is there to support line operations, not the other way around. Stemming from this is constant interaction with the feds and flexing of policies and procedures to maintain the maximum of efficiency and safety.

It's very easy to call what I'm saying as jabs and trying to make some emotional connection. However, I've explicitly spelled out the issues and how mature training programs conduct business, not isolated to a single carrier. Can you respond in a similar manner?

IBPilot

80kts, I have no problem with people making legitimate remarks about the 9e training dept. We all know it's not perfect. But when someone starts up a "my airline is better than your airline because of the training dept" chest thumping argument I'm going to jump in and call their mistakes/half truths. 11 hour PC's as one. And when you, Alaska and whoever feel the need to bash one of the instructors, who I and many other feel is one of the good instructors there who wants you to succeed and is not out to get you like the old guard you are so afraid of, I'm going to step in call you on it. And also, research FAA mandated stall recovery techniques and how they told the airlines to teach it prior to Colgan. It was not a 9e problem, it was industry wide due to the Feds.

Mesabah

Delta's is much more "easy" than Mesaba's, this is because they are checking for the quality of the pilot.

I had to TTP a maneuver during my last 9E PC because I added a word to the callouts, forget the fact I flew the maneuver perfectly.

Dutch1

Is there no way to challenge something like that after the fact? That has always been, and should continue to always be, a debriefing item, not a TTP.