mooney

One thing I have noticed, in 3 years of giving and sitting in 9e orals, and 13 years of taking them, is that a great deal of students don't/can't/refuse to differentiate between the instructor knowing "this guy knows his stuff, I'm gonna see how deep we can go to kill 2 hours and hopefully teach him or his partner something" vs "he's picking on me and going way too deep to try to fail me." I can't tell you the number of times I heard someone say "X's oral was way too hard and unfair." Did you pass? "Yeah he said I did a good job."

This is especially true of giving orals to CA's with thousands of hours on the airplane. Hopefully they know the basics, dig a little to get the rust off or teach them something new. Do we have a bad apple or two? sure everywhere does. We have one or 2 that I'm sure I'd fail his oral, or get sick of it and just walk out. Not "how many rivets" but darn close. Ironically he is one I never hear on the complaint list. Mesabah, I'm thinking you may have had him in your PC in MSP, since everyone in MEM does their PC out of MEM. He's the only one I've heard of giving a PC in JFK.

80ktsClamp

This is where Pinnacle had a very immature training department. The oral or a check should be that and only that. Stick with the script, verify they perform to the standards and that is it. Training is for training events and not to be included in something that is a jeopardy event. Pulling what you just described in a checking event at DL will get you removed from the training department if you try to do it more than once.

MrMustache

This x1000. Like you said there is a reason for recurrent TRAINING. Time and a place, but they clearly don't know that.

80ktsClamp

I remember him loudly proclaiming on the bus not long before I left that he would be in the first class once NW started hiring again. Turned out (10 months later) he would not be offered an interview since he didn't have a degree. Then there were the loud stories about him saving the plane from FOs...

mooney

Really? There is no training in checking events? Only for type rides/certificates. What's that big TTP column on a PC? there is no "script" for an oral or a PC. Whatever you need to do to get 2 precision, 2 non precision and a v1 cut. There is no "script" for an oral. The company/FED finds the check airman's way of doing it fair and competent, he gets signed off. We may be "checking" but we are also instructors, if the guys I touch don't learn something from me every time, I'm not doing my job. I have yet to have anyone in 3 years ***** about my orals or ride, or complain that it was unfair. 99% of them say "hey that was cool I really didn't know that I learned some stuff today!" That's better than going home with just sweaty palms and a bunch of "sats" in a column. And I'm not gonna change it.

MrMustache

The problem IMO is this could lead to someone digging too far then causing someone to fail during your pursuit of self worth ( not you as I have heard you are fair but some people do this). Stick to the plan and ask what needs to be asked and leave it at that. You should have the goal of making sure people pass what they need to pass. Checking and training is different, TTP is only IF someone screws the pooch. Everyone should be standard and airlines DO have scripts to follow...

mooney

let me know when ya come though for a PC. I'll be sure to only check you thoroughly, keep my mouth shut and not teach you a *^&* thing. Won't even tell you if you answer wrong and tell you why and how it really works. I think you will like the other way better.....that's a joke by the way

mooney

a good instructor knows how far he can go before negatively influencing his student. And they aren't going to fail him for digging. The instructor knows they knew the basics. And will make his student aware of that. Show me the the script Pinnacle has to follow for orals, besides a checkmark next to various systems. it's about as prominent as the "vault letter"

MrMustache

Thats fine to correct a wrong answer, I am saying it's not cool to dig because you think " they know their stuff, lets see how much they really know". And don't get me wrong I am not attacking you, you just happen to be directly involved. Like I said I have heard you are more than fair, some others not so much.

mooney

dude don't get my reputation around....I don't want people calling in sick for "pink slip smith" hoping to get me and making me reassigned on a blank day they weren't gonna use me on!


And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to dig to show how smart they are compared to you and make you feel like a moron, I'm just saying hopefully something will be learned in the lesson. God knows most of my students are smarter than me and usually teach me a thing or 2!