No surprise Endeavor Air
10-05-2013, 05:33 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 149
Ken, is there an explanation why we (9E) doesn't get to fill our quotas? Mind you I have read the emails but still don't understand why we don't get our CA spots before it goes in seniority order. Furthermore, is anyone internally waving the BS flag disputing this?
10-05-2013, 06:50 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,915
hey rookie, come back when you are done flying traffic watch and actually have enough hours to get hired by a regional. If you can't see the difference between 9e's concessionary contract (bankruptcy/judge imposed anyways with worse terms/death) vs a concessionary contract because you "might" get more flying, you shouldn't have the lives of 50 plus people in your hands. Stick to traffic watch please.
Here's an example:
Q: To be eligible for the SSP, you must be a Captain, correct? Does that mean F/Os will not be eligible?
A: No! First Officers are eligible to be hired by Delta as part of the monthly hiring commitment (that is, one third of the overall monthly commitment) outside of the SSP, so First Officers directly stand to benefit from the Bridge Agreement and will not have to wait until all Captains have been considered.
All pilots on the seniority list at the time of ratification will be entitled to an interview under the SSP. To be eligible to attend that interview under the SSP, you must be, or have been, a Captain at Pinnacle (or on leave holding a Captain position) at the time of your selection. As Pinnacle Captains move on to Delta, that will create upgrade opportunities for current First Officers to upgrade to Captain and become eligible for the seniority-based SSP.
As noted above, in addition to the hiring that will take place under the SSP, Delta has reserved the right to hire 1/3 of the monthly commitment from Pinnacle outside of seniority order, so current First Officers will be hired without having to wait to be eligible for the SSP.
A: No! First Officers are eligible to be hired by Delta as part of the monthly hiring commitment (that is, one third of the overall monthly commitment) outside of the SSP, so First Officers directly stand to benefit from the Bridge Agreement and will not have to wait until all Captains have been considered.
All pilots on the seniority list at the time of ratification will be entitled to an interview under the SSP. To be eligible to attend that interview under the SSP, you must be, or have been, a Captain at Pinnacle (or on leave holding a Captain position) at the time of your selection. As Pinnacle Captains move on to Delta, that will create upgrade opportunities for current First Officers to upgrade to Captain and become eligible for the seniority-based SSP.
As noted above, in addition to the hiring that will take place under the SSP, Delta has reserved the right to hire 1/3 of the monthly commitment from Pinnacle outside of seniority order, so current First Officers will be hired without having to wait to be eligible for the SSP.
The last part "or on leave holding a Captain position" is correct.
The middle part "or have been" is a LIE. This was to bait n' hook for downgraded CAs and future downgraded pilots to still think they have a chance.
Here's Delta's wording:
1) hold a Captain position at Pinnacle, or
2) have previously held a Captain position on the Pinnacle, Mesaba or Colgan pilot seniority list and be on an approved leave of absence from Pinnacle
2) have previously held a Captain position on the Pinnacle, Mesaba or Colgan pilot seniority list and be on an approved leave of absence from Pinnacle
10-05-2013, 07:58 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
But you can't deny that you guys were lied/duped into the POS that is the SSP.
Here's an example:
"You must be" for Captain is correct.
The last part "or on leave holding a Captain position" is correct.
The middle part "or have been" is a LIE. This was to bait n' hook for downgraded CAs and future downgraded pilots to still think they have a chance.
Here's Delta's wording:
It's clear only current Captains or leave Captains are eligible, not downgraded CAs that are now FOs. So that having been said, if 9E pilots that are not Captains - the FOs - can't even participate in the SSP then what makes anyone think they will hire RJ FOs from 9E outside the SSP? If they wanted to consider FOs they certainly could within the SSP. Take the hint though that through the SSP they only want Captains, then you can be fairly certain no 9E FO will be hired outside the SSP.
Here's an example:
"You must be" for Captain is correct.
The last part "or on leave holding a Captain position" is correct.
The middle part "or have been" is a LIE. This was to bait n' hook for downgraded CAs and future downgraded pilots to still think they have a chance.
Here's Delta's wording:
It's clear only current Captains or leave Captains are eligible, not downgraded CAs that are now FOs. So that having been said, if 9E pilots that are not Captains - the FOs - can't even participate in the SSP then what makes anyone think they will hire RJ FOs from 9E outside the SSP? If they wanted to consider FOs they certainly could within the SSP. Take the hint though that through the SSP they only want Captains, then you can be fairly certain no 9E FO will be hired outside the SSP.
10-05-2013, 08:03 PM
#106
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
It's because its not a vacancy. Your dealing with displacements. Colgan couldn't displace PNC but they could displace Mesaba because Mesaba was over there number and they did. PNCL did not get displaced by colgan that got displaced by more senior PNCL pilots from JFK. Remember this was a net loss of captain slots on the 200. Colgan was able to keep their seats they had because of how seniority works.
once you have a seat its yours until someone can kick you out by a displacement. With the BLOCH ISL it addressed quotas and myself including thought that it meant you had to maintain those levels but that's only really applies when we increase staffing. If there was a vacancy for 200 positions all would go to PNCL because their below their quota. Just like how junior some of the 900 slots went to mesaba because of the quota.
In reality though were all just buying time. We are going to 81 airplanes and the company is in deep. They still don't know how to fix this mess. Also remember to keep in eye on the mesaba quota and see how junior the 900 slots go. However those are 2004 hires. Its amazing to me how one may think they got screwed in integration to later find out they made out pretty good.
once you have a seat its yours until someone can kick you out by a displacement. With the BLOCH ISL it addressed quotas and myself including thought that it meant you had to maintain those levels but that's only really applies when we increase staffing. If there was a vacancy for 200 positions all would go to PNCL because their below their quota. Just like how junior some of the 900 slots went to mesaba because of the quota.
In reality though were all just buying time. We are going to 81 airplanes and the company is in deep. They still don't know how to fix this mess. Also remember to keep in eye on the mesaba quota and see how junior the 900 slots go. However those are 2004 hires. Its amazing to me how one may think they got screwed in integration to later find out they made out pretty good.
10-05-2013, 08:17 PM
#107
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 93
It's because its not a vacancy. Your dealing with displacements. Colgan couldn't displace PNC but they could displace Mesaba because Mesaba was over there number and they did. PNCL did not get displaced by colgan that got displaced by more senior PNCL pilots from JFK. Remember this was a net loss of captain slots on the 200. Colgan was able to keep their seats they had because of how seniority works.
once you have a seat its yours until someone can kick you out by a displacement. With the BLOCH ISL it addressed quotas and myself including thought that it meant you had to maintain those levels but that's only really applies when we increase staffing. If there was a vacancy for 200 positions all would go to PNCL because their below their quota. Just like how junior some of the 900 slots went to mesaba because of the quota.
In reality though were all just buying time. We are going to 81 airplanes and the company is in deep. They still don't know how to fix this mess. Also remember to keep in eye on the mesaba quota and see how junior the 900 slots go. However those are 2004 hires. Its amazing to me how one may think they got screwed in integration to later find out they made out pretty good.
once you have a seat its yours until someone can kick you out by a displacement. With the BLOCH ISL it addressed quotas and myself including thought that it meant you had to maintain those levels but that's only really applies when we increase staffing. If there was a vacancy for 200 positions all would go to PNCL because their below their quota. Just like how junior some of the 900 slots went to mesaba because of the quota.
In reality though were all just buying time. We are going to 81 airplanes and the company is in deep. They still don't know how to fix this mess. Also remember to keep in eye on the mesaba quota and see how junior the 900 slots go. However those are 2004 hires. Its amazing to me how one may think they got screwed in integration to later find out they made out pretty good.
En ingles, por favor?
En anglais, si'l vous plait?
10-05-2013, 10:04 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
hey rookie, come back when you are done flying traffic watch and actually have enough hours to get hired by a regional. If you can't see the difference between 9e's concessionary contract (bankruptcy/judge imposed anyways with worse terms/death) vs a concessionary contract because you "might" get more flying, you shouldn't have the lives of 50 plus people in your hands. Stick to traffic watch please.
The "Bendover" contract is a direct result of the years past due Republic contract plus Mesa and the small longevity of Compass and GOatJets. Now PSA gets to try to match it, next is Espressjet then SkyWest will... The 85% at Bendover deserve blame for voting with anything besides a dirty butthole but I digress....
10-05-2013, 10:10 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
It's because its not a vacancy. Your dealing with displacements. Colgan couldn't displace PNC but they could displace Mesaba because Mesaba was over there number and they did. PNCL did not get displaced by colgan that got displaced by more senior PNCL pilots from JFK. Remember this was a net loss of captain slots on the 200. Colgan was able to keep their seats they had because of how seniority works.
once you have a seat its yours until someone can kick you out by a displacement. With the BLOCH ISL it addressed quotas and myself including thought that it meant you had to maintain those levels but that's only really applies when we increase staffing. If there was a vacancy for 200 positions all would go to PNCL because their below their quota. Just like how junior some of the 900 slots went to mesaba because of the quota.
In reality though were all just buying time. We are going to 81 airplanes and the company is in deep. They still don't know how to fix this mess. Also remember to keep in eye on the mesaba quota and see how junior the 900 slots go. However those are 2004 hires. Its amazing to me how one may think they got screwed in integration to later find out they made out pretty good.
once you have a seat its yours until someone can kick you out by a displacement. With the BLOCH ISL it addressed quotas and myself including thought that it meant you had to maintain those levels but that's only really applies when we increase staffing. If there was a vacancy for 200 positions all would go to PNCL because their below their quota. Just like how junior some of the 900 slots went to mesaba because of the quota.
In reality though were all just buying time. We are going to 81 airplanes and the company is in deep. They still don't know how to fix this mess. Also remember to keep in eye on the mesaba quota and see how junior the 900 slots go. However those are 2004 hires. Its amazing to me how one may think they got screwed in integration to later find out they made out pretty good.
Good to know that SENIORITY works that way when 07 Colgan keep captain spots with NO AIRPLANES (scaring the crap out of the 7 year FOs' having to fly with them), while 06 Pinnacle and 05 Mesaba are all sent packing....
10-05-2013, 10:25 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 211
I have no dog in this fight but you guys realize that date of hire means very little in a SLI. Colgan pilots didn't ask for this and 07 Colgan hires went to Colgan before Q400s even existed there. Pinnacle came in with their horrible management and Colgan no longer exists because of it. So point all the fingers you want but it's not their fault. Also don't forget the 2008 Colgan hires that lost almost 30% seniority. I don't see them complaining.
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