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Old 02-24-2015, 07:26 AM
  #341  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Yeah, I know... God forbid anyone get some real world experience before flying an airliner.
The ATP rule wouldn't have stopped Colgan 3407 from happening. And although the CA was ex-Gulfstream, the FO was a CFI with plenty of experience for a regional airline.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:02 AM
  #342  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Yeah, I know... God forbid anyone get some real world experience before flying an airliner.
Originally Posted by vilcas
Well I would suggest to those that don't want Delta, interview anyway. In a couple years if you haven't made it to where you really want then you can go to Delta. This will likely be a better long term situation than Endeavor or any other regional. In the next 5 years the regional sector of the airline industry will find itself in an unsustainable situation unless the government intervenes and gets more realistic with the requirements for becoming a regional first officer.
Yeah, lets hope they intervene by lowering the bar on experience and thus safety so that dirtbag regionals can continue to pay dirt wages. Who knows, maybe we in the US can aspire to have an accident rate similar to place such as Asia/Africa with our new freshly minted aviators!!!! "...government intervenes and gets more realistic with the requirements for becoming a regional first officer." you say, maybe airline management needs to get more realistic with the salary requirements of professional,trained, and, competent regional first officers.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:59 AM
  #343  
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Originally Posted by Chupacabras
Yeah, lets hope they intervene by lowering the bar on experience and thus safety so that dirtbag regionals can continue to pay dirt wages. Who knows, maybe we in the US can aspire to have an accident rate similar to place such as Asia/Africa with our new freshly minted aviators!!!! "...government intervenes and gets more realistic with the requirements for becoming a regional first officer." you say, maybe airline management needs to get more realistic with the salary requirements of professional,trained, and, competent regional first officers.
3407 would have happened anyway The CA had 3000+ hours and the FO had 2000+ hours well above the new 1500 hour requirement
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:19 PM
  #344  
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unless the government intervenes and gets more realistic with the requirements for becoming a regional first officer.
That would help only marginally.

A HUGE problem is that flight training is very, very expensive relative to the money an average family has.

20 years ago you could be poor, want to fly, and get a bank loan. Today, the banks basically won't loan money to finance your flight training. Unless you are rich, you can get your licenses because you can't get a bank loan.

The majors could fix this by:
Guaranteeing loans for flight trianing
Hiring guys in high school as employees and then training them.
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:28 PM
  #345  
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Originally Posted by atpcliff
That would help only marginally.

A HUGE problem is that flight training is very, very expensive relative to the money an average family has.

20 years ago you could be poor, want to fly, and get a bank loan. Today, the banks basically won't loan money to finance your flight training. Unless you are rich, you can get your licenses because you can't get a bank loan.

The majors could fix this by:
Guaranteeing loans for flight trianing
Hiring guys in high school as employees and then training them.
HA never, they aren't stupid enough to do that any more than the banks lately.... The only way they would do that is to make a living wage for the FO's, they'd rather pay for the training in exchange for locking them in for the long term at a cheap wage.
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:55 PM
  #346  
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If the majors don't do anything, they will run out of pilots and start parking airplanes.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:24 PM
  #347  
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Originally Posted by atpcliff
If the majors don't do anything, they will run out of pilots and start parking airplanes.
We can remove two RJ's and fly a single E190. Or three RJ's and fly an A320.

Lots of ways to reduce pilot demand.

Already at my airport, 14 flights a day between AA and US on 50 sweaters became 7 flights a day on E175's.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:24 PM
  #348  
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Originally Posted by Endeavor200
3407 would have happened anyway The CA had 3000+ hours and the FO had 2000+ hours well above the new 1500 hour requirement
At the time of the accident, but not at the time of entry... The whole idea is increased experience before getting an airline job.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:28 PM
  #349  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
At the time of the accident, but not at the time of entry... The whole idea is increased experience before getting an airline job.
Which wouldn't have affected the outcome either.

Remember the bigger issue was stalls, at all commuters, were taught just the way 3407's CA was supposed to perform them, power out of it.

I think intelligence trumps experience almost 100% of the time.

The FO interviewed at my former commuter and was not hired due to lack of basic instrument skills when flying the sim, FWIW.

Cogan was a dirt bag operator whom employed a lot of the bottom of the barrel people.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:12 PM
  #350  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
At the time of the accident, but not at the time of entry... The whole idea is increased experience before getting an airline job.
The FO was a 1,000+ hr CFI when hired at Colgan. At the time she could have qualified for what is today a restricted ATP. Still wouldn't have stopped 3407.

No one can admit it. It was seniority that put him there. Period. In a merit based system, 3407 would not have happened. Seniority takes out any drive, motivation, and skills except what is needed to pass the new position held. It doesn't matter if you couldn't find your way out of a paper bag. As long as your number comes and you pass the training/checkride, you own the seat. Even if you fail you can still come back and try again. And at some places, yet again.
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