ShyGuy

You are misinformed. Pinnacle DID publish those minimums and bridge programs on their website.

Northwest Airlink :: Operated by Pinnacle Airlines Inc.

Look there. Back then, the 1000 total required had an asterick as "preferred" in paranthesis, and same with the multi engine time requirement "preferred" in paranthesis. At the bottom, it said if you didn't have that, then 9E offers these bridge programs for you. It's all right there in the link.

So, it wasn't a back door. It was a published thing, and anyone (including you) could qualify for that if they didn't have 1000TT/200ME. Back door deals are when only a certain group qualifies for something not available to anyone else. For Delta, there is no asterick or "preferred" for a bachelor degree. It is published as a hard requirement. There's quite a difference between your 9E analogy and Delta's hard published requirement for a degree.

I had to look up what FOAD was, I think it's a little harsh to tell someone to eff off and die here.

IBPilot

Shy, you are missing my point. You said "Back door deals are when only a certain group qualifies for something not available to anyone else. For Delta, there is no asterick or "preferred" for a bachelor degree. It is published as a hard requirement. There's quite a difference between your 9E analogy and Delta's hard published requirement for a degree."

there WAS a back door deal, by your definition, with CAE/ATP/RIDDLE/JETU etc. Only THOSE groups qualified to get on at 300-800 hours TT. A Low time guy who did NOT go to one of those programs, (preferred)mins not met, would not be hired. So only certain groups qualified for something not available to anyone else. So who are you to say that DL can't make a degree exception for some? Those who did their "vote no and take a paycut program?" Just like 9e made an exception for those groups I mentioned?

And by the way, nice job taking the one snapshot from ONE hiring timeframe to try to suit your story. How about posting the ones with HARD mins that we had with the exception of one of the programs? Not just the Jet U/ CAE deal? Don't pretend like hiring mins aren't fluid.

You sound like one of my recent FO's that was complaining that requiring PIC time should be dropped, his 5000 SIC hours in an RJ was good enough, but that any 9,000 hour Captain should have a degree to move on. He couldn't quite answer my question how a degree in accounting made him a better pilot than someone with 3000 hours of PIC decision making and no degree. That to me sounds kind of like you.....get hired on an airbus with ZERO turbine PIC and then want higher educational mins for others, to make less competition for you.

ShyGuy

The point is it IS available to anyone. If you are a low timer with 300-800 hrs, then you *choose* not to do a bridge program, that is up to you. But the option is available to anyone, so I don't think 9E had a back door deal because it was available to you. Those lower (published) minimums apply to those who do the programs. 9E gave two options for everyone. Hard published minimums of 1000/200 or lower minimums with bridge programs (and those individual programs had their minimums published on those program websites).

The Delta thing is a requirement for everyone to have a degree. The non-degree option (apparently, if it exists) only for those at 9E under the SSP. This eliminates anyone without a degree outside 9E, and there isn't anything they can do about it. At least in your 9E scenario, *everyone* has the option to do a bridge course and be considered under that route. In this Delta case, apparently only 9E guys without degrees are considered, the rest all need degrees. In the 9E case, it's an optional route anyone can take. In the Delta case, it's a one-time exception only for the 9E group. That is apples and oranges.


I don't know what you are talking about? I used the Wayback machine to find that internet page from 2007 when I was hired. That was true in 2007 and 2008. Jet U/CAE was mostly in 2007 and 8. I think the earliest Jet U class was a Dec 2006 DOH at 9E. Are you referring to the Gulfstream program? I don't know what nwairlink's website said about them. I imagine there was at least a reference to it, as an otion available, but I'm not sure. I wasn't there 2002-2006 when the Gulfstream program was really kicking.


Absolutely not! Because Delta does *NOT* require any TPIC time as a published requirement! That FO, as long as he has 1200 total, a 1000 turbine SIC, and a college degree, meets the published Delta requirements (competitive requirements are different - but he meets the minimums). That Captain that has 9000 hrs, 3000 TPIC time, and no college degree does NOT meet Delta's published requirements. It has nothing to do with TPIC time, so no offense to him. Delta and Fedex require a degree, ergo, since the CA doesn't have it and the FO does, the FO is qualified and the CA isn't.

IBPilot

Not sure why you implied I was talking about Delta, I never said that. He was talking about every carrier. That NO pic should be required anywhere, and that a degree should be required everywhere.

And those programs were NOT available to everyone......only those with 20K of theirs or daddy's money to blow. And then complain they have an additional 20k of debt to pay off on a $20/hour job.

ShyGuy

Oh ok, then he's got a bad argument. Minimums are minimums for a reason, and some of those have conditions associated with it (astericks or paranthesis). Saying no TPIC should be required and a college degree required everywhere is his way of saying he wishes he could get ahead of the competition because he has that one thing that quite a few CAs don't. I don't agree with that viewpoint, I think an applicant should meet the published hiring requirements. If there's conditional requirements with an "*" or () then those conditions can be met through whatever means are published. That having been said, I can feel for him because he's stuck at 37/hr with no chance to make more until he gets hired at a LCC/Legacy.

Those programs were available to anyone who had the money or the means to finance it. Also, lots of people that did those programs were not CFIs. So in that sense they saved money on the CFI, -II, MEI and just went for the bridge program. Now the mertis of flight experience, taking a shortcut, that's for a whole another thread, and not worth getting into here.

legend

Delta should get rid of the degree requirement for all. It doesn't make you a better pilot( which is what they hire you to do)and a degree doesn't make you educated. Good work history, team player, high level of jet/turbine experience, good work ethic (not everyone owes me something and its not in my job description attitude). Someone who is teachable and mold able to Deltas way. Good to your customers and co-workers(everyone down to the cleaners that clean the plane for you). A Degree won't teach you that. Having 10,000 hrs Jet Pic time doesn't make you a good employee or a safe pilot either. Hopefully if this vault is real that whoever interviews us will see who we are and the potential of being a good safe pilot the way Delta does it.

That being said I feel getting a Degree for your own personal development is important and I will have mine someday but it's the last thing I would look for in determining if someone was a quality pilot/individual/employee.

bonesbrigade

No I don't think it is at all... you are a bottom feeder who doesn't realize when you and your opinion aren't wanted.
Nobody that I've talked to in the real world has any respect for you due 100% because of your personality on this forum. You just do not seem to get it.

N2Core

While a degree doesn't really make you a better aviator, it's makes you more professional. The only reason you feel the way you do in your paragraph is because you don't have one. My suggestion is to go get. There really aren't any excuses not to.

ShyGuy

IBPilot, I don't have an app at Delta and no current plans to do so.

MrMustache

That's a lie and you know it. Why do you kiss butt in the Delta threads so much then? Just like making even more friends?