Pinnacle Changes Name to Endeavor
07-02-2013, 05:39 AM
#91
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,628
Which should be even more of a red flag! They bought Comair for more money and still shut them down. And before the comment about it took years to shut down, they started transferring chunks of flying to other airlines well before last year. That brings up another subject....XJ AND 9L no longer exist, YOU ARE 9E now. There is a reason 600 people have left or are trying to.
So you believe that Delta intends to shut 9E down?
Is that your point? I just want to be having the same conversation.
07-02-2013, 05:47 AM
#92
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Joined APC: May 2013
Position: The Parlor
Posts: 1,252
Not sure exactly anymore BUT I do believe if they don't, 9E will be sold or shrunk to nothing. The point is I find it funny how everyone think's "this time is different, Daddy won't beat me anymore, he has changed". We all know no one can let their guard down or think this is all rainbows and gumdrops because this purchase was not something Delta had planned I bet. Bankrupting 9E was obviously but realizing they were so poorly managed that without their funding they would shut down was not in the plan. Let's be honest the only reason 9E was saved was because of how big of a hole shutting down would have created for DCI, and the whipsaw opportunity ( which won't be there forever). 9E was not bought because Delta thought they were the mostest professional, superest airline ever ran which so many seem to think. Purely business and if the numbers don't work Ta Ta.
07-02-2013, 06:28 AM
#93
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
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Gotcha, well in that case that was funny because so many say that crap.
Not sure exactly anymore BUT I do believe if they don't, 9E will be sold or shrunk to nothing. The point is I find it funny how everyone think's "this time is different, Daddy won't beat me anymore, he has changed". We all know no one can let their guard down or think this is all rainbows and gumdrops because this purchase was not something Delta had planned I bet. Bankrupting 9E was obviously but realizing they were so poorly managed that without their funding they would shut down was not in the plan. Let's be honest the only reason 9E was saved was because of how big of a hole shutting down would have created for DCI, and the whipsaw opportunity ( which won't be there forever). 9E was not bought because Delta thought they were the mostest professional, superest airline ever ran which so many seem to think. Purely business and if the numbers don't work Ta Ta.
Not sure exactly anymore BUT I do believe if they don't, 9E will be sold or shrunk to nothing. The point is I find it funny how everyone think's "this time is different, Daddy won't beat me anymore, he has changed". We all know no one can let their guard down or think this is all rainbows and gumdrops because this purchase was not something Delta had planned I bet. Bankrupting 9E was obviously but realizing they were so poorly managed that without their funding they would shut down was not in the plan. Let's be honest the only reason 9E was saved was because of how big of a hole shutting down would have created for DCI, and the whipsaw opportunity ( which won't be there forever). 9E was not bought because Delta thought they were the mostest professional, superest airline ever ran which so many seem to think. Purely business and if the numbers don't work Ta Ta.
I don't think Delta plans on shrinking 9E or shutting it down. Look at what 9E is now, an ultra-streamlined Regional with capped pilot rates for the next 7 years. There isn't another Regional in the country that is as pared down as a company as Endeavor is now.
The two big weights on Endeavor's books right now are the fences and training costs and there are over 600 pilots on the payroll with over 10 years longevity. They are correcting the fences and the training will wind down one day and as soon as Delta starts hiring they can take a chunk of those 10 year plus guys and move them to Delta.
Why would they destroy the jewel of the industry, there is too much they can do as a threat alone, Delta pilots, other regionals etc.
And I've thought about Delta building Pinnacle up and selling them, but they have done something interesting here: There are no backoffice systems that are not on the Delta backbone. Endeavor is nothing more than a sub-Department of Delta now. Run by the Delta machine.
A buyer would have to add all those departments and people back into the company and it would lose some of its appeal. Not that someone wouldn't buy it, just that it doesn't look packaged to sell.
07-02-2013, 06:37 AM
#94
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Joined APC: May 2013
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Posts: 1,252
It's going to be hard to convince me that Delta didn't do all this on purpose, but it really doesn't matter how we got here, we are here now.
I don't think Delta plans on shrinking 9E or shutting it down. Look at what 9E is now, an ultra-streamlined Regional with capped pilot rates for the next 7 years. There isn't another Regional in the country that is as pared down as a company as Endeavor is now.
The two big weights on Endeavor's books right now are the fences and training costs and there are over 600 pilots on the payroll with over 10 years longevity. They are correcting the fences and the training will wind down one day and as soon as Delta starts hiring they can take a chunk of those 10 year plus guys and move them to Delta.
Why would they destroy the jewel of the industry, there is too much they can do as a threat alone, Delta pilots, other regionals etc.
And I've thought about Delta building Pinnacle up and selling them, but they have done something interesting here: There are no backoffice systems that are not on the Delta backbone. Endeavor is nothing more than a sub-Department of Delta now. Run by the Delta machine.
A buyer would have to add all those departments and people back into the company and it would lose some of its appeal. Not that someone wouldn't buy it, just that it doesn't look packaged to sell.
I don't think Delta plans on shrinking 9E or shutting it down. Look at what 9E is now, an ultra-streamlined Regional with capped pilot rates for the next 7 years. There isn't another Regional in the country that is as pared down as a company as Endeavor is now.
The two big weights on Endeavor's books right now are the fences and training costs and there are over 600 pilots on the payroll with over 10 years longevity. They are correcting the fences and the training will wind down one day and as soon as Delta starts hiring they can take a chunk of those 10 year plus guys and move them to Delta.
Why would they destroy the jewel of the industry, there is too much they can do as a threat alone, Delta pilots, other regionals etc.
And I've thought about Delta building Pinnacle up and selling them, but they have done something interesting here: There are no backoffice systems that are not on the Delta backbone. Endeavor is nothing more than a sub-Department of Delta now. Run by the Delta machine.
A buyer would have to add all those departments and people back into the company and it would lose some of its appeal. Not that someone wouldn't buy it, just that it doesn't look packaged to sell.
07-02-2013, 07:58 AM
#96
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Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 344
It's going to be hard to convince me that Delta didn't do all this on purpose, but it really doesn't matter how we got here, we are here now.
I don't think Delta plans on shrinking 9E or shutting it down. Look at what 9E is now, an ultra-streamlined Regional with capped pilot rates for the next 7 years. There isn't another Regional in the country that is as pared down as a company as Endeavor is now.
The two big weights on Endeavor's books right now are the fences and training costs and there are over 600 pilots on the payroll with over 10 years longevity. They are correcting the fences and the training will wind down one day and as soon as Delta starts hiring they can take a chunk of those 10 year plus guys and move them to Delta.
Why would they destroy the jewel of the industry, there is too much they can do as a threat alone, Delta pilots, other regionals etc.
And I've thought about Delta building Pinnacle up and selling them, but they have done something interesting here: There are no backoffice systems that are not on the Delta backbone. Endeavor is nothing more than a sub-Department of Delta now. Run by the Delta machine.
A buyer would have to add all those departments and people back into the company and it would lose some of its appeal. Not that someone wouldn't buy it, just that it doesn't look packaged to sell.
I don't think Delta plans on shrinking 9E or shutting it down. Look at what 9E is now, an ultra-streamlined Regional with capped pilot rates for the next 7 years. There isn't another Regional in the country that is as pared down as a company as Endeavor is now.
The two big weights on Endeavor's books right now are the fences and training costs and there are over 600 pilots on the payroll with over 10 years longevity. They are correcting the fences and the training will wind down one day and as soon as Delta starts hiring they can take a chunk of those 10 year plus guys and move them to Delta.
Why would they destroy the jewel of the industry, there is too much they can do as a threat alone, Delta pilots, other regionals etc.
And I've thought about Delta building Pinnacle up and selling them, but they have done something interesting here: There are no backoffice systems that are not on the Delta backbone. Endeavor is nothing more than a sub-Department of Delta now. Run by the Delta machine.
A buyer would have to add all those departments and people back into the company and it would lose some of its appeal. Not that someone wouldn't buy it, just that it doesn't look packaged to sell.
Hiring people to boost your operation is no big deal. Start them at the bottom with bottom pay and don't worry about paying a 10 year dispatcher what they're worth.
Think outside the pilot box. Would you want to buy a whole airline, payroll and all, if you already had the departments in place? We see how well that has worked out for Pinnacle and SkyWest.
07-02-2013, 08:07 AM
#97
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Posts: 1,628
I agree and have the same line of thought as you, but as a small business owner I can see an advantage for putting the 'sub-department' company on the market. If I were buying a company I wouldn't want one that came with a bunch of overhead. If I already run a similar company and have these departments in place I would simply boost my current operation. I honestly believe if Delta were to sell Pinnacle, which I'm not sold on that yet, that it would be an asset sale only. Asset purchases are much more lucrative to investors rather than ones that come with a bunch of pieces. Essentially, anyone who buys Pinnacle will buying airplanes and pilots and it will be up to them for when/if they increase to properly managed the newly acquired assets.
Hiring people to boost your operation is no big deal. Start them at the bottom with bottom pay and don't worry about paying a 10 year dispatcher what they're worth.
Think outside the pilot box. Would you want to buy a whole airline, payroll and all, if you already had the departments in place? We see how well that has worked out for Pinnacle and SkyWest.
Hiring people to boost your operation is no big deal. Start them at the bottom with bottom pay and don't worry about paying a 10 year dispatcher what they're worth.
Think outside the pilot box. Would you want to buy a whole airline, payroll and all, if you already had the departments in place? We see how well that has worked out for Pinnacle and SkyWest.
07-02-2013, 08:15 AM
#99
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Captain
Posts: 464
I agree and have the same line of thought as you, but as a small business owner I can see an advantage for putting the 'sub-department' company on the market. If I were buying a company I wouldn't want one that came with a bunch of overhead. If I already run a similar company and have these departments in place I would simply boost my current operation. I honestly believe if Delta were to sell Pinnacle, which I'm not sold on that yet, that it would be an asset sale only. Asset purchases are much more lucrative to investors rather than ones that come with a bunch of pieces. Essentially, anyone who buys Pinnacle will buying airplanes and pilots and it will be up to them for when/if they increase to properly managed the newly acquired assets.
Hiring people to boost your operation is no big deal. Start them at the bottom with bottom pay and don't worry about paying a 10 year dispatcher what they're worth.
Think outside the pilot box. Would you want to buy a whole airline, payroll and all, if you already had the departments in place? We see how well that has worked out for Pinnacle and SkyWest.
Hiring people to boost your operation is no big deal. Start them at the bottom with bottom pay and don't worry about paying a 10 year dispatcher what they're worth.
Think outside the pilot box. Would you want to buy a whole airline, payroll and all, if you already had the departments in place? We see how well that has worked out for Pinnacle and SkyWest.
So lets say hypothetically that they did try to sell us. The Regional model is done/dead due to future staffing issues. So if not a regional what? A LCC? Otherwise no incentive to buy us!
07-02-2013, 02:29 PM
#100
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Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 344
Hypothetically speaking I think it would solve someone's staffing issue. We have 2500ish for a future 81 airplane operation. Say we lose 1000 in the next two years, just a ballpark guess. That still leaves a surplus of pilots to fly other airplanes. Eagle as well. If they lose planes there will be plenty of surplus pilots. Hypothetically republic and sky west could solve their staffing issues for those new planes they can't staff right now. Buying a shrinking airline can solve a growing airline's problems.
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