MrMustache

And 9E didn't have the same level of incompetence by lawndarting from 410? Don't be mad because the craptastic airline you flew for screwed you. Isn't that what people always tell Lakes/Silver, Etc. pilots? This is no different, Pinnacle was bottom of the barrel and you bought your way into that mess too! Obviously your investment didn't pan out as expected so you continuously cry about it. Move along

ShyGuy

Yes and if that was a passenger flight with dead passengers, Pinnacle wouldn't exist beyond 2005/6. Most regionals that have a crash that kills people, Corporate Air / Regions, Air Midwest, Comair, Colgan, they cease to exist. Eagle and ASA were exceptions and they have an excellent safety record today. Look at the new thread about FAA guy warning Colgan about their safety practices. Colgan 3407 was just waiting to happen.

SmitteyB

Shy- you offer nothing meaningful to the conversation. You are an idiot if you think that Colgan pilots deserved nothing because someone crashed an airplane.

I would argue after 3701 no Pinnacle Pilot had any career expecations either. No airframes had been added since that accident. Seriously what kind of an argument is that?

FlyingKat

Let the fun begin. These airline execs have been lying about the impact of these mergers for years and are ticking off a lot of the small market airports with service cuts. In 5-10 years the anti trust division of the DOJ will be busting these airlines back up just like AT and T.

SmitteyB

That FAA guy (Chris Monteleon) was a OPS inspector for the Q400 startup program. Did you also know he couldn't even pass the Q type rating which was a large part in why he was removed from the launch team?

Of course you didn't Shy.

Are you really going to sit there and act like you're better than Colgan pilots because you went to Pinnacle to fly a jet?

cencal83406

Northwest Airlink Flight 5719 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read up on some Pinnacle history my friend.

Noseeums

deleted...

have fun

IBPilot

Not that I want to join this convo about crashes and who is better, my timeline might be off, but didn't they get 16 -900's after?

FlyJSH

Ma Bell was given a monopoly with the government's blessing as long as it didn't branch out into other industries. AT&T wanted so badly to move into other areas, it offered to give up its monopoly. When it did, just as in the airline industry, everybody started a long distance company. And also like the airline industry, few survived.

ShyGuy

Not someone crashed a plane. But a Colgan pilot who had lied to get hired and was by all accounts (at least on paper) incompetent. There's quite a difference. Now one may be a fluke, but "Flying Cheap" shows first hand accounts of former pilots at Colgan and they spoke the truth. C Wikens and C Heiser told it like it is.

Regional Pilot Life in the US.mp4 - YouTube

Then there was B Coates who had a W&B issue and decided it would be better to rat out his Captain to the FAA, and I believe the investigation that followed basically killed the CA's career.

There's something seriously wrong with that. So anyway, based on the descriptions of former pilots like Wikens and Heiser, along with the fact that Colgan was basically upgrading people into the Saab as soon as they hit 1,500 - 2,500 hrs, along with very low time FOs, flight 3407 was no surprise. I didn't say Colgan pilots deserved nothing. However, 3407 had a profound affect on Colgan and the name was tarnished, one way or another, the name had to disappear. My point is this should have been accounted for in "career expectations." You can't stall a loaded Q400 into a Buffalo neighborhood and expect to remain in business. And again, your point about 3701 would be correct if that was a passenger flight. First of all, that accident probably wouldn't have happened because the crew did precisely what they did because no one was onboard. But if there were passengers and everyone died, Pinnacle would have been gone in 2005/6. However, by chance no one else died except the two pilots. As for more airframes, Pinnacle did get 16 CRJ-900s that started flying for Delta at ATL under the Delta Connection brand. This was back in 2007, before the NWA/DAL merger.

Of course I did. And I read his interview from the NTSB crash docket:

http://dms.ntsb.gov/public%2F47000-4...1%2F417451.pdf

He was your POI from 2003-2005, so say what you want about that guy, but he was the POI in the same time that Wiken and Hieser were flying and were now describing these things in "Flying Cheap." I'll take this ex-POI's word about Colgan's operations. He had first hand knowledge of what was going on. Sure, he failed a type ride, but he was very experienced based on his background and resume. I'll take his word on the subject. And please, this has nothing to do with flying jets or props. Not to mention, you wouldn't even have had those Qs if it wasn't for 9E Corp's 191 million convertible note during a time 9E pilots were told their ALPA contract proposal would bankrupt the company. They grew a non-union Colgan while displacing and downgrading a union 9E. You'll excuse me if I don't get the warm fuzzies when Colgan is mentioned (in addition to the 3047 crash).


That was long before it was Pinnacle. Was that Express I? I assume so. 1991 was a long time ago. How big was Express I back then? What kind of operations was it doing?

Sounds eerily like Colgan 3407. And both CA's names were Marvin. What are the chances. Incompetent pilots should be weeded out, instead, ALPA protects them.