Forced upgrades
06-02-2024, 07:12 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 59
I don't get the whole "forced upgrade" situation.
I can understand at a major, where you've got small kids and the schedule you want and need to keep it that way awhile. And are making $200k.
But the ticket to big money is upgrading at a regional....do people just think they're not ready, are they apprehensive about it, or are they acting like a major airline FO with a cushy schedule making "enough"?
I'm all for all of us getting paid what we're worth and making more, but if people won't upgrade and the company needs CAs, (and the pool for DECs has dried up, which it will) then forced upgrades are the only way.
I can understand at a major, where you've got small kids and the schedule you want and need to keep it that way awhile. And are making $200k.
But the ticket to big money is upgrading at a regional....do people just think they're not ready, are they apprehensive about it, or are they acting like a major airline FO with a cushy schedule making "enough"?
I'm all for all of us getting paid what we're worth and making more, but if people won't upgrade and the company needs CAs, (and the pool for DECs has dried up, which it will) then forced upgrades are the only way.
06-03-2024, 05:16 AM
#32
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,091
Here's a crazy concept... your values are not necessarily the same as their values. For some, life at their regional may be good enough, or their life situation changed after being hired where it's the best option now thanks to seniority and the money meets their needs. Or maybe they just have no interest in moving on. Not everything in life is all about money.
Well OK, there are some regional CAs that don't want to move on either. They've got a family embedded in school or work in a place they want to be. They are at the top of the seniority list, flying the schedule they want, might have years invested in a side gig, and trapped by their seniority and the fact that the major hiring boom has led to a CA shortage that has actually kicked up CA pay to something not unreasonable, they'd actually LOSE pay for a few years if they went to a major - even to a legacy - and they may even have too few years left to ever recoup that. But there ain't many like that and the few that are that senior are aging out.
As long as the company is flying hour limited by inadequate numbers of CAs, every 121 SIC hour that an FO flies above 1000 is an SIC hour that some other FO - some FO that actually wants to make CA to help him/her move on in their career can't fly. And if enough can't do that, the regional itself is going to fold.
Look, regionals were almost on their way out and have sort of been given a reprieve by COVID and war sanction related supply chain screw-ups at Pratt&Whitney and Airbus, and a spate of genuine incompetence in management at Boeing. But that doesn't mean they are out of the woods. From your company's perspective, FOs with over 1000 - 1200 121 hours who refuse to upgrade have become a liability rather than an asset, all they can really do with existing employees is to keep FO pay high enough to keep the classes full and low enough that the higher CA pay is an incentive to upgrade but they are going to do everything they legally can to insure that new hires upgrade asap. It ain't personal, it's just business and pretty much a business necessity.
06-03-2024, 07:49 AM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 59
You are right, not everything is. But you also are not the only person in the universe. Every hour of every single FOs 121 flying time is absolutely dependent on having a CA in the left seat. The viability of the regional is absolutely dependent on having a CA in the left seat. Now maybe you want the whole regional system to go away - and many of us do - but at YOUR EMPLOYER as long as you are at a regional the viability of your job as an FO is totally dependent upon sufficient CAs.
Well OK, there are some regional CAs that don't want to move on either. They've got a family embedded in school or work in a place they want to be. They are at the top of the seniority list, flying the schedule they want, might have years invested in a side gig, and trapped by their seniority and the fact that the major hiring boom has led to a CA shortage that has actually kicked up CA pay to something not unreasonable, they'd actually LOSE pay for a few years if they went to a major - even to a legacy - and they may even have too few years left to ever recoup that. But there ain't many like that and the few that are that senior are aging out.
As long as the company is flying hour limited by inadequate numbers of CAs, every 121 SIC hour that an FO flies above 1000 is an SIC hour that some other FO - some FO that actually wants to make CA to help him/her move on in their career can't fly. And if enough can't do that, the regional itself is going to fold.
Look, regionals were almost on their way out and have sort of been given a reprieve by COVID and war sanction related supply chain screw-ups at Pratt&Whitney and Airbus, and a spate of genuine incompetence in management at Boeing. But that doesn't mean they are out of the woods. From your company's perspective, FOs with over 1000 - 1200 121 hours who refuse to upgrade have become a liability rather than an asset, all they can really do with existing employees is to keep FO pay high enough to keep the classes full and low enough that the higher CA pay is an incentive to upgrade but they are going to do everything they legally can to insure that new hires upgrade asap. It ain't personal, it's just business and pretty much a business necessity.
Well OK, there are some regional CAs that don't want to move on either. They've got a family embedded in school or work in a place they want to be. They are at the top of the seniority list, flying the schedule they want, might have years invested in a side gig, and trapped by their seniority and the fact that the major hiring boom has led to a CA shortage that has actually kicked up CA pay to something not unreasonable, they'd actually LOSE pay for a few years if they went to a major - even to a legacy - and they may even have too few years left to ever recoup that. But there ain't many like that and the few that are that senior are aging out.
As long as the company is flying hour limited by inadequate numbers of CAs, every 121 SIC hour that an FO flies above 1000 is an SIC hour that some other FO - some FO that actually wants to make CA to help him/her move on in their career can't fly. And if enough can't do that, the regional itself is going to fold.
Look, regionals were almost on their way out and have sort of been given a reprieve by COVID and war sanction related supply chain screw-ups at Pratt&Whitney and Airbus, and a spate of genuine incompetence in management at Boeing. But that doesn't mean they are out of the woods. From your company's perspective, FOs with over 1000 - 1200 121 hours who refuse to upgrade have become a liability rather than an asset, all they can really do with existing employees is to keep FO pay high enough to keep the classes full and low enough that the higher CA pay is an incentive to upgrade but they are going to do everything they legally can to insure that new hires upgrade asap. It ain't personal, it's just business and pretty much a business necessity.
My post simply addressd the myopic view of "why don't people want to upgrade, it's the ticket to a major" by pointing out not everyone has the same priorities. I disagree with the practice of forced upgrades, but if they aren't specifically disallowed in the contract then of course the company will use that resource and your only remedy is to amend the contract, as it should be. There are undoubtedly other ways to incentivize upgrades, but they likely cost more or take too long to have a meaningful effect when the need is immediate.
Finally, I bet you would be the first to say the company owes you nothing more than what is agreed upon in the contract. That also means that you owe the company nothing more than what is in the contract as well, it's a 2-way street. It's not personal, it's strictly business
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