DALPA MEC Elections
11-26-2016, 06:49 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,012
I have a remarkably fast metabolism, as you will see.
The dirty dozen doesn't get any credit for this TA. They ordered the admin to engage in regressive bargaining on August 26, just days before a four-day "super mediation" session in Baltimore. Malone came out of that session with NOTHING. The NMB told us we could either come to the table ready to deal, or we could continue towing banners over empty baseball parks. The finite limits of the great orange circle jerk had been reached.
I believe you will recall that we sat on the bench for about three weeks? What happened at the September MEC meeting?
The membership went ape is what happened. Bartels and his cronies (including Tom Bell) were about to drive us off a cliff, and a lot of pilots contacted their reps and told them to send the negotiators back with rational marching orders. Everyone knew that a deal was possible, and the dozen knew they were ignoring their own polling data.
This TA was reached DESPITE the MEC, not because of it.
The dirty dozen doesn't get any credit for this TA. They ordered the admin to engage in regressive bargaining on August 26, just days before a four-day "super mediation" session in Baltimore. Malone came out of that session with NOTHING. The NMB told us we could either come to the table ready to deal, or we could continue towing banners over empty baseball parks. The finite limits of the great orange circle jerk had been reached.
I believe you will recall that we sat on the bench for about three weeks? What happened at the September MEC meeting?
The membership went ape is what happened. Bartels and his cronies (including Tom Bell) were about to drive us off a cliff, and a lot of pilots contacted their reps and told them to send the negotiators back with rational marching orders. Everyone knew that a deal was possible, and the dozen knew they were ignoring their own polling data.
This TA was reached DESPITE the MEC, not because of it.
11-26-2016, 07:12 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 409
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
11-26-2016, 08:10 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
I have a remarkably fast metabolism, as you will see.
The dirty dozen doesn't get any credit for this TA. They ordered the admin to engage in regressive bargaining on August 26, just days before a four-day "super mediation" session in Baltimore. Malone came out of that session with NOTHING. The NMB told us we could either come to the table ready to deal, or we could continue towing banners over empty baseball parks. The finite limits of the great orange circle jerk had been reached.
I believe you will recall that we sat on the bench for about three weeks? What happened at the September MEC meeting?
The membership went ape is what happened. Bartels and his cronies (including Tom Bell) were about to drive us off a cliff, and a lot of pilots contacted their reps and told them to send the negotiators back with rational marching orders. Everyone knew that a deal was possible, and the dozen knew they were ignoring their own polling data.
This TA was reached DESPITE the MEC, not because of it.
The dirty dozen doesn't get any credit for this TA. They ordered the admin to engage in regressive bargaining on August 26, just days before a four-day "super mediation" session in Baltimore. Malone came out of that session with NOTHING. The NMB told us we could either come to the table ready to deal, or we could continue towing banners over empty baseball parks. The finite limits of the great orange circle jerk had been reached.
I believe you will recall that we sat on the bench for about three weeks? What happened at the September MEC meeting?
The membership went ape is what happened. Bartels and his cronies (including Tom Bell) were about to drive us off a cliff, and a lot of pilots contacted their reps and told them to send the negotiators back with rational marching orders. Everyone knew that a deal was possible, and the dozen knew they were ignoring their own polling data.
This TA was reached DESPITE the MEC, not because of it.
At least this MEC had the guts to stand up and be counted. They were also able to come together and modify their positions when they needed to for the good of the pilot group............unlike the previous MEC. I sure as heck wouldn't go touting the previous MECs accomplishments......especially in Section 6 negotiations.I, like a lot of others, believe that the brinksmanship played in the last three weeks or so played a significant role in allowing us to keep profit sharing the way it is and not allowing anymore large RJs etc. In other words, for getting the TA we currently are voting on.
Denny
11-27-2016, 04:52 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 343
I have a remarkably fast metabolism, as you will see.
The dirty dozen doesn't get any credit for this TA. They ordered the admin to engage in regressive bargaining on August 26, just days before a four-day "super mediation" session in Baltimore. Malone came out of that session with NOTHING. The NMB told us we could either come to the table ready to deal, or we could continue towing banners over empty baseball parks. The finite limits of the great orange circle jerk had been reached.
I believe you will recall that we sat on the bench for about three weeks? What happened at the September MEC meeting?
The membership went ape is what happened. Bartels and his cronies (including Tom Bell) were about to drive us off a cliff, and a lot of pilots contacted their reps and told them to send the negotiators back with rational marching orders. Everyone knew that a deal was possible, and the dozen knew they were ignoring their own polling data.
This TA was reached DESPITE the MEC, not because of it.
The dirty dozen doesn't get any credit for this TA. They ordered the admin to engage in regressive bargaining on August 26, just days before a four-day "super mediation" session in Baltimore. Malone came out of that session with NOTHING. The NMB told us we could either come to the table ready to deal, or we could continue towing banners over empty baseball parks. The finite limits of the great orange circle jerk had been reached.
I believe you will recall that we sat on the bench for about three weeks? What happened at the September MEC meeting?
The membership went ape is what happened. Bartels and his cronies (including Tom Bell) were about to drive us off a cliff, and a lot of pilots contacted their reps and told them to send the negotiators back with rational marching orders. Everyone knew that a deal was possible, and the dozen knew they were ignoring their own polling data.
This TA was reached DESPITE the MEC, not because of it.
There was considerable movement and accommodation by the 12 and the rest of the MEC during the timeout and between when negotiations resumed. The Fact is the final TA agreed to was substantially better in several areas than the one before the impasse. An order of magnitude better than TA1. I find it astonishing that a few are so entrenched in their dogma that rather than begrudgingly admitting they were wrong and happily counting their scheckles, they are deriding the alleged recklessness and lack of leadership, obviously as part of attempted electioneering, and that we would have been better off with more predictability (and possibly a lesser result?)
We got the TA in spite of the MEC? One of the most absurd things I've read in a long time. Please submit your resume to the Moak Group.
Thank you with for identifying yourself as one of the previous administration(s) insiders with your wholly unhealthy and unnatural unrequited obsession with Bill Bartells. If you bothered to talk to anyone outside your own myopic echo chamber you'd have learned BB was decidedly moderate, and almost on the outside of the "12".
Last edited by Valar Morghulis; 11-27-2016 at 05:06 AM.
11-27-2016, 08:20 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
I think the "12" unintentionally did the pilots a disservice. I'm not convinced they intended to set the dangerous precedent, but they did. The precedent is having any faction that can cobble together 10 reps on any issue, or bundle of issues, making decisions for the body - then informing the rest of the body of the way the it's going to be.
Seems ok if you like the direction...
...until it works to cut your homies out next time.
In the case of the final TA, it took Bastian and Malone to buy into the mediator's advice. Helmet stickers to those 3! Lessons learned. Let's move on.
11-27-2016, 08:35 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
I'm with you!
I think the "12" unintentionally did the pilots a disservice. I'm not convinced they intended to set the dangerous precedent, but they did. The precedent is having any faction that can cobble together 10 reps on any issue, or bundle of issues, making decisions for the body - then informing the rest of the body of the way the it's going to be.
You do know there is a term for that right? It's called "majority rules." Isn't that what happens whenever the MEC or any governing body for that matter, takes a vote? If you are complaining about no debate taking place, what happened before the 12 got together? Was there no debate then? There comes a time when decisions have to be made. Rightly or wrongly the 12 made one. I applaud them for being decisive.
Seems ok if you like the direction...
...until it works to cut your homies out next time.
In the case of the final TA, it took Bastian and Malone to buy into the mediator's advice. Helmet stickers to those 3!
Seems to me, this is what it usually comes down to, the MEC Chairman and the CEO hashing out the big stuff.
Lessons learned. Let's move on.
I think the "12" unintentionally did the pilots a disservice. I'm not convinced they intended to set the dangerous precedent, but they did. The precedent is having any faction that can cobble together 10 reps on any issue, or bundle of issues, making decisions for the body - then informing the rest of the body of the way the it's going to be.
You do know there is a term for that right? It's called "majority rules." Isn't that what happens whenever the MEC or any governing body for that matter, takes a vote? If you are complaining about no debate taking place, what happened before the 12 got together? Was there no debate then? There comes a time when decisions have to be made. Rightly or wrongly the 12 made one. I applaud them for being decisive.
Seems ok if you like the direction...
...until it works to cut your homies out next time.
In the case of the final TA, it took Bastian and Malone to buy into the mediator's advice. Helmet stickers to those 3!
Seems to me, this is what it usually comes down to, the MEC Chairman and the CEO hashing out the big stuff.
Lessons learned. Let's move on.
Denny
11-27-2016, 08:52 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
You do know there is a term for that right? It's called "majority rules." Isn't that what happens whenever the MEC or any governing body for that matter, takes a vote? If you are complaining about no debate taking place, what happened before the 12 got together? Was there no debate then? There comes a time when decisions have to be made. Rightly or wrongly the 12 made one. I applaud them for being decisive.
I'll shoot a quick email to our MEC Chairman, and tell him he can save a ton of time and $$ by just calling reps until he gets 10 that like his idea on any issue. He can then dispense with any meetings of all the reps, and simply inform them "majority rules". That's decisive, too.
Regardless of the amount of debate on any of the issues PRIOR to the "meeting of the 12", there was no debate of those items as a package by all the reps. Call yours to confirm that. I did.
I don't think you believe it's moot...or you wouldn't have posted the comments above. It's worthy of discussion because we're the ones who put our reps in office to follow a process described in the ALPA Constitution and the MEC Policy manual. The rules in both of those documents are there to ensure everybody has a voice.
11-27-2016, 09:52 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Then file your opinion on this away for future reference.
I'll shoot a quick email to our MEC Chairman, and tell him he can save a ton of time and $$ by just calling reps until he gets 10 that like his idea on any issue. He can then dispense with any meetings of all the reps, and simply inform them "majority rules". That's decisive, too.
If he can find 10 reps that agree with with him without any debate, more power to him. I think I have a lot more faith in our reps judgment than you do. If you think it is that easy to get that many reps to agree to something without any debate, they must feel very strongly about the topic. I would disagree with your premise that there was not any debate prior to the 12 coming together. What do you think was the catalyst for it if not previous debate? Where I feel they erred was in their presentation to the MEC as a group.
Regardless of the amount of debate on any of the issues PRIOR to the "meeting of the 12", there was no debate of those items as a package by all the reps. Call yours to confirm that. I did.
See above.
I don't think you believe it's moot...or you wouldn't have posted the comments above. It's worthy of discussion because we're the ones who put our reps in office to follow a process described in the ALPA Constitution and the MEC Policy manual. The rules in both of those documents are there to ensure everybody has a voice.
I'll shoot a quick email to our MEC Chairman, and tell him he can save a ton of time and $$ by just calling reps until he gets 10 that like his idea on any issue. He can then dispense with any meetings of all the reps, and simply inform them "majority rules". That's decisive, too.
If he can find 10 reps that agree with with him without any debate, more power to him. I think I have a lot more faith in our reps judgment than you do. If you think it is that easy to get that many reps to agree to something without any debate, they must feel very strongly about the topic. I would disagree with your premise that there was not any debate prior to the 12 coming together. What do you think was the catalyst for it if not previous debate? Where I feel they erred was in their presentation to the MEC as a group.
Regardless of the amount of debate on any of the issues PRIOR to the "meeting of the 12", there was no debate of those items as a package by all the reps. Call yours to confirm that. I did.
See above.
I don't think you believe it's moot...or you wouldn't have posted the comments above. It's worthy of discussion because we're the ones who put our reps in office to follow a process described in the ALPA Constitution and the MEC Policy manual. The rules in both of those documents are there to ensure everybody has a voice.
Were the ALPA Constitution and the MEC Policy manual violated? If so, please point me to specific sections. If they were violated, I would have thought a much bigger stink would have been made.
Denny
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