What needs to be fixed? What is a win?
10-18-2016, 08:52 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
The days of watching out for the old guards are not over, and the environment sets the context. And history informs us as to the sort of shenanigans that get pulled (B-scales, The Matrix that existed both at Delta and NW, etc.).
I don't think you would see guys being as naïve as they were in 1996, but desperate people do desperate things. I think there are enough people around that might want to grab a chunk of money on their way out, under the guise of some pension change (probably not a DB, but some weird targeted plan, or some annuity, or even a really oddly-time early-retirement plan). As we get younger, their window closes, but we're not there yet.
I know I'm probably being a bit machiavellian here, but there is a reason we still read the guy: human nature is mostly constant.
I think there will be more of a need to be involved, and get very, very interested in the quality of our representation going forward, not less. One thing I totally agree with BtoA (and others) on is that we'll need to supervise VB and specially TDY) closely.
I don't think you would see guys being as naïve as they were in 1996, but desperate people do desperate things. I think there are enough people around that might want to grab a chunk of money on their way out, under the guise of some pension change (probably not a DB, but some weird targeted plan, or some annuity, or even a really oddly-time early-retirement plan). As we get younger, their window closes, but we're not there yet.
I know I'm probably being a bit machiavellian here, but there is a reason we still read the guy: human nature is mostly constant.
I think there will be more of a need to be involved, and get very, very interested in the quality of our representation going forward, not less. One thing I totally agree with BtoA (and others) on is that we'll need to supervise VB and specially TDY) closely.
Zero interest and a multi bubble economy high on trillions of funny money would be a hilarious time to try and get back into a DB. There's just no way, even if the demographics leaned that way, which they don't. That ship has sailed over the horizon and off the edge of the flat earth it came from. Its not coming back.
10-18-2016, 09:17 PM
#33
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I think that ship has sailed. Not to mention, there's no way to get a DB again. At least not anything worth very much, and even a crappy one would cost so much IMO just about everyone would rather just have the cash.
Zero interest and a multi bubble economy high on trillions of funny money would be a hilarious time to try and get back into a DB. There's just no way, even if the demographics leaned that way, which they don't. That ship has sailed over the horizon and off the edge of the flat earth it came from. Its not coming back.
Zero interest and a multi bubble economy high on trillions of funny money would be a hilarious time to try and get back into a DB. There's just no way, even if the demographics leaned that way, which they don't. That ship has sailed over the horizon and off the edge of the flat earth it came from. Its not coming back.
In my opinion, my no vote last year was justified. The poison pills have been 95% removed and full restoration granted. On the verge of a presidential election of this sort with an awful outcome regardless, I'm ok with this deal.
10-19-2016, 07:05 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,456
I think that ship has sailed. Not to mention, there's no way to get a DB again. At least not anything worth very much, and even a crappy one would cost so much IMO just about everyone would rather just have the cash.
Zero interest and a multi bubble economy high on trillions of funny money would be a hilarious time to try and get back into a DB. There's just no way, even if the demographics leaned that way, which they don't. That ship has sailed over the horizon and off the edge of the flat earth it came from. Its not coming back.
Zero interest and a multi bubble economy high on trillions of funny money would be a hilarious time to try and get back into a DB. There's just no way, even if the demographics leaned that way, which they don't. That ship has sailed over the horizon and off the edge of the flat earth it came from. Its not coming back.
10-19-2016, 08:04 AM
#35
Bus driver
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 838
Agreed for both of you and Sink. The restoration+ crowd is literally off in la la land.
In my opinion, my no vote last year was justified. The poison pills have been 95% removed and full restoration granted. On the verge of a presidential election of this sort with an awful outcome regardless, I'm ok with this deal.
In my opinion, my no vote last year was justified. The poison pills have been 95% removed and full restoration granted. On the verge of a presidential election of this sort with an awful outcome regardless, I'm ok with this deal.
10-19-2016, 08:18 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
So someone else getting a better deal is not fair because YOU didn't get it? Funny how you vilified those that voted yes on TA 15 as being 'greedy'.
10-19-2016, 08:45 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
This is a shift in all industries, not just airlines that declared bankruptcy. After 23 years of service my father, who was an office type in the consumer products industry, was given the option of capping his pension and participating in the DC. At his seniority he accrued more cash in the next 7 years than he would have gained in retirement benefit. He made the choice to leave aviation and I think it was a good one for him. All the employees were given that choice and now new hires only have a DC. Companies don't want the legacy responsibility to manage huge funds that don't produce returns for the company and are expensive to administer.
We can get a DB at some point, but if we ever do it will be an insured annuity based one in our names. And it won't ever be a guaranteed chunk of FAE.
10-19-2016, 09:15 AM
#38
Quality of Lifer
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: M88A
Posts: 677
Agreed for both of you and Sink. The restoration+ crowd is literally off in la la land.
In my opinion, my no vote last year was justified. The poison pills have been 95% removed and full restoration granted. On the verge of a presidential election of this sort with an awful outcome regardless, I'm ok with this deal.
In my opinion, my no vote last year was justified. The poison pills have been 95% removed and full restoration granted. On the verge of a presidential election of this sort with an awful outcome regardless, I'm ok with this deal.
10-19-2016, 09:40 AM
#39
Bus driver
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 838
Hello James...those of us that vote for work rules and QOL don't get too wrapped up in section 3, like you and yours do. I will benefit better than a lot of Captains if this TA passes, due to my getting paid for about 1,765 hours of pay for 2016. I can buy a nice car for my retro check if this TA passes. If you want to call the raise from TA15 as being greedy, I can't help you much with that. You do know that you and your fellow LCAs, and the SLIs will get a much better deal if the TA passes, by far, than the average line pilot? I wish I was paid for what my seniority would hold when I'm flying 80/hrs a month on the line. Even better for the 717 LCAs to get 777 override pay. What percentage of the pilot list is getting this better deal if the TA passes James? Surely the majority, that work on average 10 to 12 hour days, right?
10-19-2016, 06:10 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Cockpit speaker volume knob set to eleven.
Posts: 1,410
Does that include guys who get their trip taken by training and then green slip...or stay home and get paid. Good on 'em. If an OE guy gets a big override for doing OE...goodnonnhim too. They don't get enough right now.
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