Negotiation Rumors
10-02-2016, 11:06 AM
#82
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I assume there is some kind of change to the OE issue from current book. If there weren't, that definitely would have made its way into the blue grid on the notepad. Likewise I doubt it'll be as onerous as POSTA1.0, but will it be a token "addressing of their concern" or a full on splitting of the baby? We'll see. IMO the 2015 version would be a huge negative that would push enough "yes but on the fence" voters into the NO camp to jeopardize MEMRAT chances. If its not near as bad as that, but still give the company some relief, it'll probably be something the group won't view as a red line issue.
10-02-2016, 11:18 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 558
I assume there is some kind of change to the OE issue from current book. If there weren't, that definitely would have made its way into the blue grid on the notepad. Likewise I doubt it'll be as onerous as POSTA1.0, but will it be a token "addressing of their concern" or a full on splitting of the baby? We'll see. IMO the 2015 version would be a huge negative that would push enough "yes but on the fence" voters into the NO camp to jeopardize MEMRAT chances. If its not near as bad as that, but still give the company some relief, it'll probably be something the group won't view as a red line issue.
10-02-2016, 04:51 PM
#84
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,010
I think the provision was altered to allow up to 15% of open time to be pulled once PCS runs start. I heard but have not yet seen in writing that the company then has 48 hours to schedule an OE or it goes back into open time.
FWIW the company is already taking action on this topic. In LAX on the 737 we went from about 5 LCA to about 12. Most of the senior guys stopped/reduced the whole buddy bidding thing.
This will not affect on the number of trips pulled but could prevent any Pilot from getting a bunch of trips dropped in any month. In March and June I had 4 trips with LCA in both months - NADA, ZIP, ZILCH.
Now maybe in NYC on the 717.
Scoop
10-02-2016, 09:52 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I think the provision was altered to allow up to 15% of open time to be pulled once PCS runs start. I heard but have not yet seen in writing that the company then has 48 hours to schedule an OE or it goes back into open time.
FWIW the company is already taking action on this topic. In LAX on the 737 we went from about 5 LCA to about 12. Most of the senior guys stopped/reduced the whole buddy bidding thing.
This will not affect on the number of trips pulled but could prevent any Pilot from getting a bunch of trips dropped in any month. In March and June I had 4 trips with LCA in both months - NADA, ZIP, ZILCH.
Now maybe in NYC on the 717.
Scoop
FWIW the company is already taking action on this topic. In LAX on the 737 we went from about 5 LCA to about 12. Most of the senior guys stopped/reduced the whole buddy bidding thing.
This will not affect on the number of trips pulled but could prevent any Pilot from getting a bunch of trips dropped in any month. In March and June I had 4 trips with LCA in both months - NADA, ZIP, ZILCH.
Now maybe in NYC on the 717.
Scoop
10-03-2016, 02:06 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,010
FWIW the company is already taking action on this topic. In LAX on the 737 we went from about 5 LCA to about 12. Most of the senior guys stopped/reduced the whole buddy bidding thing.
This will not affect on the number of trips pulled but could prevent any Pilot from getting a bunch of trips dropped in any month.
Scoop
This will not affect on the number of trips pulled but could prevent any Pilot from getting a bunch of trips dropped in any month.
Scoop
A relative handful of senior FOs in each category will have some legitimate gripes, and I won't be surprised to see some portion of them decide to upgrade if LCA bidding isn't as reliably productive as it has been. Of course any OE pull hurts us over the existing practice. But I think the more pilots who benefit from OE buyoff, the harder it will be for management to degrade it further in the next round of negotiations.
10-03-2016, 03:31 AM
#87
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
I can't say I hate this change. Spreading the love around a little more uniformly before the volume of OE increases exponentially is (IMHO) good for the pilot group at large. And since the new hire freeze was the quid exchanged for OE buyoff (I've heard), it seems reasonable that those who were frozen might have an increased chance of being bought off despite lower category seniority.
A relative handful of senior FOs in each category will have some legitimate gripes, and I won't be surprised to see some portion of them decide to upgrade if LCA bidding isn't as reliably productive as it has been. Of course any OE pull hurts us over the existing practice. But I think the more pilots who benefit from OE buyoff, the harder it will be for management to degrade it further in the next round of negotiations.
A relative handful of senior FOs in each category will have some legitimate gripes, and I won't be surprised to see some portion of them decide to upgrade if LCA bidding isn't as reliably productive as it has been. Of course any OE pull hurts us over the existing practice. But I think the more pilots who benefit from OE buyoff, the harder it will be for management to degrade it further in the next round of negotiations.
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
10-03-2016, 04:20 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,010
This is a huge fallacy. FOs from all over the list benefit from this, not just the top guys. Sure, they are getting the whole month dropped sometimes, but some LCA are pretty junior and have crappy trips. Those trips go to junior FOs and then get bought.
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
10-03-2016, 05:25 AM
#89
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: new guy
Posts: 382
This is a huge fallacy. FOs from all over the list benefit from this, not just the top guys. Sure, they are getting the whole month dropped sometimes, but some LCA are pretty junior and have crappy trips. Those trips go to junior FOs and then get bought.
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
Oh well. At least those guys aren't getting their good deal anymore! Reminds me of how 'poor' people like it when you tax the rich more. It didn't really improve your situation (probably hurt it), but at least you feel like those rich guys got hurt!
10-03-2016, 08:01 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,010
Not to mention that every mid-seniority CA and below will be affected when the senior FOs decide to upgrade. So, now you are a junior CA expecting to move up the list incrementally over the next couple of years? Good luck. Every opening senior to you will have a FO senior to you bidding in over the top of you. Stagnation and QOL hits.
Oh well. At least those guys aren't getting their good deal anymore! Reminds me of how 'poor' people like it when you tax the rich more. It didn't really improve your situation (probably hurt it), but at least you feel like those rich guys got hurt!
Oh well. At least those guys aren't getting their good deal anymore! Reminds me of how 'poor' people like it when you tax the rich more. It didn't really improve your situation (probably hurt it), but at least you feel like those rich guys got hurt!
I celebrate no one losing a good deal. But I frankly won't lose sleep over everyone having high likelihood of a few OE buy-offs every year at the expense of a fortunate few who once had whole months regularly bought off. A larger LCA cadre might shuffle where buy-offs happen, but it doesn't pre-empt seniority.
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