Negotiation Rumors
09-29-2016, 05:19 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,010
History says you can wait but in the end you will get the same basic contract. It just happens years later. Delta in general got their contracts done close to on time. Other airlines fought for years almost every contract. In the end they would sign a agreement within 1% or 2 % of what they could have had near the amendable date. Sometimes they signed for less like AMR's prior contract. The lifetime loss of earnings doing that is staggering even if the contract you sign may be industry leading.
Google and read as much as you can on the RLA and NMB and their philosophy on controlling negotiations.
Google and read as much as you can on the RLA and NMB and their philosophy on controlling negotiations.
09-29-2016, 06:20 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,653
As far as compensation the signing bonus would have funded a 1% raise for 4 years meaning 15.5% to start. So we are up 1% at the current 16.5%. The major difference is the 1 year increase in duration. Looking at the recent history of raises that one year increase is going to cost us dearly. The upfront raise will have to be closer to 17.5% with full retro to match TA15 in overall value to the pilot group. That's before we see the first dime in real improvements.
Given the contracts signed at UPS and the extension at UAL and PS at AMR it's pretty underwhelming. I see almost no additional money on the table from TA15. I voted no on TA15 in the belief and promises that we would be right back at the table and hammer out a deal in AUG. The 65% no vote gave the NC the power to quickly change the big issues in the rejection. The company fully understood those issues and knew what they had to give to get a ratified agreement. Unfortunately those promising a immediate return to the table had a unpublished agenda and that never happened. If we sign a TA today by the time the ratification is done we will be 18 months behind with little to show for it. The problem is that if we drag it out for a couple of more years we will just be that much further behind with no real improvement.
09-29-2016, 06:45 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 367
Honestly right now I have seen very little money put on the table. In fact as I see the company position at the moment it's below TA 15 in what our overall compensation would be. I see improvements in trip drops and sick but nothing high dollar. The PS changes are a wash.
As far as compensation the signing bonus would have funded a 1% raise for 4 years meaning 15.5% to start. So we are up 1% at the current 16.5%. The major difference is the 1 year increase in duration. Looking at the recent history of raises that one year increase is going to cost us dearly. The upfront raise will have to be closer to 17.5% with full retro to match TA15 in overall value to the pilot group. That's before we see the first dime in real improvements.
Given the contracts signed at UPS and the extension at UAL and PS at AMR it's pretty underwhelming. I see almost no additional money on the table from TA15. I voted no on TA15 in the belief and promises that we would be right back at the table and hammer out a deal in AUG. The 65% no vote gave the NC the power to quickly change the big issues in the rejection. The company fully understood those issues and knew what they had to give to get a ratified agreement. Unfortunately those promising a immediate return to the table had a unpublished agenda and that never happened. If we sign a TA today by the time the ratification is done we will be 18 months behind with little to show for it. The problem is that if we drag it out for a couple of more years we will just be that much further behind with no real improvement.
As far as compensation the signing bonus would have funded a 1% raise for 4 years meaning 15.5% to start. So we are up 1% at the current 16.5%. The major difference is the 1 year increase in duration. Looking at the recent history of raises that one year increase is going to cost us dearly. The upfront raise will have to be closer to 17.5% with full retro to match TA15 in overall value to the pilot group. That's before we see the first dime in real improvements.
Given the contracts signed at UPS and the extension at UAL and PS at AMR it's pretty underwhelming. I see almost no additional money on the table from TA15. I voted no on TA15 in the belief and promises that we would be right back at the table and hammer out a deal in AUG. The 65% no vote gave the NC the power to quickly change the big issues in the rejection. The company fully understood those issues and knew what they had to give to get a ratified agreement. Unfortunately those promising a immediate return to the table had a unpublished agenda and that never happened. If we sign a TA today by the time the ratification is done we will be 18 months behind with little to show for it. The problem is that if we drag it out for a couple of more years we will just be that much further behind with no real improvement.
09-29-2016, 08:11 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Hates Commuting
Posts: 969
09-29-2016, 08:14 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,237
09-29-2016, 08:17 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,034
Our pilot group is weak. It's not an option. Summer schedule was covered easily. Hell, 717 B schedule was covered in May even though we were under the contractual numbers. GSWC went out, but schedule still covered. We are GS and WS *****s. You're living in a dream world. Maybe 3-4 years down the road, guys will lose motivation. I'm inclined to vote yes for the first time in my career because I have come to realize how weak our group is as a whole.
09-29-2016, 09:59 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Our pilot group is weak. It's not an option. Summer schedule was covered easily. Hell, 717 B schedule was covered in May even though we were under the contractual numbers. GSWC went out, but schedule still covered. We are GS and WS *****s. You're living in a dream world. Maybe 3-4 years down the road, guys will lose motivation. I'm inclined to vote yes for the first time in my career because I have come to realize how weak our group is as a whole.
TEN
09-29-2016, 10:41 AM
#29
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,309
Weak, panicky and an emotional pilot group is what management and union think of us. Just look at C2012 and TA15 and you will see why they think that. The Management team and Union are chomping at the bit to take advantage of our weakness again. I will never succumb to selling you or myself out. Never. I could care less how long it takes.
TEN
TEN
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