Negotiation Rumors
10-03-2016, 08:42 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
A good deal is awesome, but IMO we're not going to the mat to protect a very, very small handful of pilots consistantly getting triple pay because of trickle down relative seniority. They get triple pay but don't worry you may or may not get a slightly different trip because you effectively moved up one number in the stack.
What we should do is value the cost of this correctly, especially for manning, and make sure that the abuses of the past (when OE recovery with horrible limitations was the rule of the day) never return.
More details are needed, but from what limited info I've hear about this, it appears it is something the vast majority can live with.
What we should do is value the cost of this correctly, especially for manning, and make sure that the abuses of the past (when OE recovery with horrible limitations was the rule of the day) never return.
More details are needed, but from what limited info I've hear about this, it appears it is something the vast majority can live with.
10-03-2016, 08:43 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Cockpit speaker volume knob set to eleven.
Posts: 1,410
Not to mention that every mid-seniority CA and below will be affected when the senior FOs decide to upgrade. So, now you are a junior CA expecting to move up the list incrementally over the next couple of years? Good luck. Every opening senior to you will have a FO senior to you bidding in over the top of you. Stagnation and QOL hits.
Oh well. At least those guys aren't getting their good deal anymore! Reminds me of how 'poor' people like it when you tax the rich more. It didn't really improve your situation (probably hurt it), but at least you feel like those rich guys got hurt!
Oh well. At least those guys aren't getting their good deal anymore! Reminds me of how 'poor' people like it when you tax the rich more. It didn't really improve your situation (probably hurt it), but at least you feel like those rich guys got hurt!
Seniority would be better on the bad dog but most guys I fly with won't go there. Most seem to prefer going to widebody F/O with better seniority.
10-03-2016, 09:39 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
Posts: 978
This is a huge fallacy. FOs from all over the list benefit from this, not just the top guys. Sure, they are getting the whole month dropped sometimes, but some LCA are pretty junior and have crappy trips. Those trips go to junior FOs and then get bought.
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
10-03-2016, 09:44 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
About the newhire freeze:
It's a half-freeze, right? According to the AIP's, you're frozen only from aircraft changes in the same base. If you want to change bases, seems like you're good to go.
And after you change, I don't see a prohibition from coming back to the original base, so...
Let's wait for final language, but it looks like a very weak freeze.
It's a half-freeze, right? According to the AIP's, you're frozen only from aircraft changes in the same base. If you want to change bases, seems like you're good to go.
And after you change, I don't see a prohibition from coming back to the original base, so...
Let's wait for final language, but it looks like a very weak freeze.
10-03-2016, 09:44 AM
#95
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
This is a huge fallacy. FOs from all over the list benefit from this, not just the top guys. Sure, they are getting the whole month dropped sometimes, but some LCA are pretty junior and have crappy trips. Those trips go to junior FOs and then get bought.
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
This attitude really chaps my hide. What other seniority based bene is discounted and criticized? Let's pull the OE trips from the captains pot. See how far that goes....
10-03-2016, 09:46 AM
#96
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
About the newhire freeze:
It's a half-freeze, right? According to the AIP's, you're frozen only from aircraft changes in the same base. If you want to change bases, seems like you're good to go.
And after you change, I don't see a prohibition from coming back to the original base, so...
Let's wait for final language, but it looks like a very weak freeze.
It's a half-freeze, right? According to the AIP's, you're frozen only from aircraft changes in the same base. If you want to change bases, seems like you're good to go.
And after you change, I don't see a prohibition from coming back to the original base, so...
Let's wait for final language, but it looks like a very weak freeze.
This goes in the "meh" column.
10-03-2016, 09:51 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Practically speaking, I think most everyone that's briefed on this rule in indoc can bid the right equipment in class. Can anyone think of a combo where you couldn't get to the base you want to go to, ASSUMING YOU HAVE THE SENIORITY?
10-03-2016, 10:29 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,010
I see. Thanks for the clarification. I agree it's more of a "meh". Definitely not a plus. It limits what people can do a little more.
Practically speaking, I think most everyone that's briefed on this rule in indoc can bid the right equipment in class. Can anyone think of a combo where you couldn't get to the base you want to go to, ASSUMING YOU HAVE THE SENIORITY?
Practically speaking, I think most everyone that's briefed on this rule in indoc can bid the right equipment in class. Can anyone think of a combo where you couldn't get to the base you want to go to, ASSUMING YOU HAVE THE SENIORITY?
10-03-2016, 10:34 AM
#99
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Unfortunately, you are correct here. We already have the most stringent freezes of any major or legacy. Major concession? Perhaps not, but definitely in the negative column.
10-03-2016, 11:02 AM
#100
Bus driver
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 839
Have they done any math on what it looks like during the busiest training months 80, which will be almost every one as we move forward?
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