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09-25-2016, 07:37 AM

#51

404yxl

Banned

Joined APC: Jan 2015

Posts: 988

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFlyGuy

Why do we always compare ourselves to SWA, etc? And not include the bad parts? SWAPA never took paycuts because they weren't bankrupt. They had signed a long term contract for 3% maximum raise a year back in the day. They didn't always get the 3%. Any takers on that? They had better management which bought airplanes for cash and fuel hedged when fuel was cheap. They never had anything close to our C2K rates in the first place. They never had a pension. They had all short call all the time for reserve. Now SWA and UPS which was also massively profitable and never bankrupt go 4+ years without an agreement and wind up with the equivalent of 3% a year and they are our heros?? If we go another 4 years and sign equivalent of 3-3-3-3 with "full retro" will you be ecstatic? I don't expect to exceed the rest by 20% margin nor do I expect no exchanges at all. That isn't "weak." Its just realistic vs typical Forum delusion. We deserve and should expect the best contract in the industry out of our current talks. I'll know it when I see it. OFG

We are already at 16.5% full retro to Jan. 1, 2016 from the company.

The only reason we don't get full retro is because we vote yes to not get it. So yes, we will get full retro unless you say no to it. They are close to if not over $400 million in savings due to not paying it yet. Our profit sharing will include some of it. 3B4 will force the company to pay us more.

I would be happy to take 2004 rates and grab 3-4% raises since then. You in?

09-25-2016, 08:55 AM

#52

OldFlyGuy

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jul 2014

Posts: 429

Quote:

Originally Posted by 404yxl

We aren't too far apart here. This last part about rates? Of course. That would probably be over $350 hr for the 737 and over $450 hr for the 777. No one is close to those numbers. Our contract and rates got crushed. Three "realistic" observations: 1) even without BK and with massive profits and negotiating in this environment SWA/UPS only "held" their own line which was way below our old line. 2) It simply isn't that easy to jump the industry by a bunch (see #1). 3) We deserve the best contract in the industry and it should be obvious when we see it. My feelings on Retro are probably reflective of the group. I expect full retro to Jan 1st. I expect once the number gets into the billion+ region management is gonna balk. Retro after we get to that point will require a major food fight. You need to be ready for that fight and acknowledge ahead of time that most organized labor food fights don't usually benefit either party. They are usually more like a bad divorce. I THINK any new lanyards should say FULL RETRO REQUIRED. Maybe give the negotiators needed support to push the company to an agreement before the retro $ number is issue. Oh, and have a Great Delta Day! OFG