Hank Kingsley

It's an election year. Nobody is striking in the foreseeable future. Maybe at the end of the first term.

404yxl

Man you guys are so full of crap.

First you say no one gets full retro, then Southwest gets full retro for even their deceased pilots, proving what a load of crap comes out of your mouths.

Southwest did not need 15% from 2013. They only needed 3%, then 4% on top of that 3% and another 4% on top of the 4% on top of 3%.

But keep up the lies and deceit about them not getting full retro.

Just sad.

Hawaii50

I'm not understanding your full retro calculation. Are you saying they would have negotiated 3,4,3,15% pay raises for a 4 year deal if they would have had a contract 4 years ago. That never would have passed and it's a huge difference from 15,3,4,3.
Would full retro for us 4 years from now be 3,3,3,18?

404yxl

Check your math because you are way off.

Southwest did not get 3%(2013), 4%(2014), 3%(2015), 15%(2016). They got 3%(2013), 4%(2014), 4%(2013), 3.2%(2016).

$100 *1.03 = $103 *1.04 = $107.12(7.12% compounding) *1.04 = $111.41(11.41% compounding) *1.032 = $115(15% compounding)

The reason why you see the 15% is because of the way the company is accounting for the raise in their books. The 15% raise is based on pre-2013 rate and adding 15%.
Their retro check is based on the raises above per $100,000
2013 (3%) = $3,000
2014 (7.12%) = $7,120
2015 (11.41%) = $11,410
$21,530 total per $100,000 pre-profit sharing and 401K.
Plus Profit Sharing and 401K on top of those numbers, puts a Southwest Captain pilot grossing close to $60,000 or more for their retro check.

Southwest pilots never needed a 15% raise in 2013, only 3% or 4% raises because they never took paycuts like Delta. Delta pilots are still trying to just make it back to pre-paycut rates. They got it all at full retro. Our retro would already be 16.5%/3%/3%, based on the company's offer, not 3,3,3,18. No matter how much you try and spin the truth, your deceit won't work.

sailingfun

The SW pilots I know disagree strongly with you. What was the pay raise they opened for in 2012?

Sink r8

That term (full retro)... I do not think you think it means what I think it means...

When the little numbers come out in front of the big number, it's not full retro.

Dharma

So Southwest pilots got 3%, 4%, 4%, 3.2%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 3% for their 8 year contract.

I wonder if they had known that this is what they were going to end up with when they started they might have chosen a different path. FedEx and UPS had similar results.

There's a lesson here for you 404.

gopher3

Boy...you guys have really short memories. Did SW pilots take massive paycuts after 9/11? Was there pension terminated? Did they lose touching trip vacations? Do they have PBS? How awful is there medical plan? Should I keep going or wait for Tsquare Bond to ask me what that has to do with anything. SW was hiring and growing for years while we had guys on furlough. But now times are good and you want to trade PS and work rules(concessions) for some chump change that your buddy ED is throwing at you while the company is making billions. You guys are weak.....and predictable.

gloopy

Whatever it takes.

I doubt we'll get released in 2016 regardless because we're really just a year into it. We have, however, made disportioncate progress in that period, and the industry has raised the tide substantially as well. Both of those things help us immensely. But in any case I'd expect at least another year or two. And I'm fine with that in order to avoid concessions and giveaways, particularly in scope.

OldFlyGuy

Why do we always compare ourselves to SWA, etc? And not include the bad parts? SWAPA never took paycuts because they weren't bankrupt. They had signed a long term contract for 3% maximum raise a year back in the day. They didn't always get the 3%. Any takers on that? They had better management which bought airplanes for cash and fuel hedged when fuel was cheap. They never had anything close to our C2K rates in the first place. They never had a pension. They had all short call all the time for reserve. Now SWA and UPS which was also massively profitable and never bankrupt go 4+ years without an agreement and wind up with the equivalent of 3% a year and they are our heros?? If we go another 4 years and sign equivalent of 3-3-3-3 with "full retro" will you be ecstatic? I don't expect to exceed the rest by 20% margin nor do I expect no exchanges at all. That isn't "weak." Its just realistic vs typical Forum delusion. We deserve and should expect the best contract in the industry out of our current talks. I'll know it when I see it. OFG