notEnuf

Why must you commingle Profit sharing and pay rates? This is insane. Show your math. Best I come up with is $315/hr if you lump it all together. Sorry they are two different forms of compensation from two different sources, protecting both time and investment of the Delta pilots.

JamesBond

I wanna know how he came up with $363. If, as he said, it is assuming a 20% PS payout, that would mean the company's offer is $303. (Math in public)

Purple Drank

They can change anything they want in the AIPs. I'm a "no" based on the sick TA language. That's right. The sick leave garbage has already been TA'd. It won't change.

Other pilot groups improve their QOL, while we actively seek to sell it. Pathetic.

Gunfighter

I may have projected the reasons for my NO vote onto the rest of the group. It is possible that some would consider concessions in scope or sick leave and possibly the ongoing concessions we've given in vacation and training pay for a large enough pay increase. To be more accurate, in my small sample size of the few dozen pilots I've flow with who voted NO, there haven't been any who indicated they would consider concessions in scope or sick leave, nor are they in favor of a minuscule 15' pay no credit for vacation. Based on that small sample size I'm still concerned about the original statement that the negotiating committee was given "more latitude". That term indicates that they may have been given direction to pull back from what would be an acceptable position, to one that is in more danger of failing memrat.

Sink r8

I think that's a very fair way to express it.

My observation is that you're right: everyone figures the group is just like them. In theory, polling and survey data help solve that problem reliably. Certainly, a vote would do the job.

Honestly, the "Focus Plus" approach of the MEC is all theirs. Until the 12 tried to renege on it, they were involved in every step of developing these AIP's. They did so thinking it would save time, but it also opened a lot of other sections, for not a lot of difference from TA1. Whatever. This is where they invested the last year, and from here, there is no way you can trash the AIP's wholesale (probably not more than a couple) without trashing the entire mediation process (i.e. square one). So you're stuck having to get a taste of the whole menu to see whether you want to order the meal or not.

In an alternate universe, maybe the MEC would have gone for a clean but smaller raise? No one knows.

Certainly what no one can say, in any small sample, is how they would vote on a TA they can't see, with some of the most important sections undetermined. I really doubt the average pilot is cool with not getting 1) a deal, and 2) a vote, no matter how they view individual concessions/gains.

sailingfun

The math is easy. Current rate 218.00. 16.5% now and 3% on I Jan. DC rate of 16% on 1 Jan. The original poster included those items. The comparison is us to SW so adding PS is valid since our program is better.
Delta Rate with DC on 1 Jan. 303
SWA rate with DC on 1 Jan. 278

I fully expect we will see a slightly higher rate in the final product and I expect to retain the pensionability aspect of the PS. I used the companies current table position as worst case numbers.

Purple Drank

Whose proposed vacation is better? Whose proposed fatigue policy? (Hint: it's not the one with a fitness review board). Whose sick provisions? Whose scope?
Again, you are fixating on pay rates. Big mistake.

sailingfun

There are other aspects you omit. The biggest being pickups allowed at straight rates to FAR limits. That's a Delta management wet dream!

TexanDriver

As someone that was unable to vote on the last TA, you can be sure I'll be looking at the above items on the next one and will have no qualms voting no if they don't change from the AIPs. Pay raises are nice, but not if they're paid for with concessions especially when I have 20+ years remaining.

Chris Hansen

Great. What is the cost to us to obtain those rates? Hint: see AIPs. We aren't "unlocking value" we are selling work rules for a few bucks. If the AIPs that have been presented are any indication of the full language TA, I would not expect the MEC to pass that.

So, if you wanna focus on pay rates alone we are about 3-4 PWAs away from industry leading rates with Allegiant work rules. Right? The biggest winner in this is the UAL pilot group if we get these rates at the cost of work rules. That is about the only "win" in this for anyone based off what we have seen so far.