Tanker1497

I'm not too sure about that satchip, maybe a SME could chime in for clarification. I had a SWA JS'er that bids 3 day trips. They are usually worth about 21 hours. One of the days he showed us was no kidding 7 block. But the other was only 4. I believe where they make hay is with a min day worth close to 7 hours? Again, maybe someone who works there could clarify. As to the 5:15 ADG, I will give you that it's better than 4:30 DPA. We paid a dear price to get it in the 117 LOA; we increased reroute coverage time, via section 23 ladder, from 3 hours to 14 hours. We also lost our contractual buffers, and made 117 controlling. Two pretty big gets for the company. So I have a 3 day on the 717 worth 15:45, with a 30 hr layover. The trip probably credits 2 to 3 hours. So on the two flying days, that's normally eight legs, and about 12 to 13 block hours. Not exactly a picnic, with a 3:30 wake up. We all work pretty hard flying domestically, no one can deny SWA's incredible productivity.

Herkflyr

Using your own words, you should be the very biggest cheerleader of trading PS for pay rates. After all, if you plan on PS being "zero" and anything on Feb 14 is merely a "pleasant surprise" then wouldn't you much rather have higher pay rates throughout the year--money now being worth more than money later--and get your "planned" PS payout of zero in February? I know that I would. More importantly, the math says that.

FL370esq

Actually, that is exactly my point. I am a huge of fan of getting rates irrespective of profit sharing. I think we have missed the point by negotiating the two as interdependent items when they should be mutually exclusive items of negotiations.

Profit sharing is the distribution of "found money" paid after expenses have been paid from revenue. I want my pay rates to be industry leading realizing that the expenses which are deducted from revenue will be greater thereby rendering the profit sharing pool smaller BUT, that is a-okay with me because I would prefer a 1:1 distribution of money on the 15th and 30th each and every month rather than relying on a one-time partial (i.e., 20% or 23% or some percentage around there but certainly not 100%) distribution on Valentine's Day. This way, you get paid industry leading wages at 100 % and then you get paid a nice bonus on Valentine's Day if/when there is a profit to be had.

Unlike some here who have only seen sunshine and roses in their Delta career (BobZ it would seem), I have been here long enough to see the "airline cycle" (which I guess equates to Black Swans....) and even experienced Joe Kolschack's self-described "interim career deviation" with 1,300 other pilots so yeah, I am a little bit jaded. Pay me now and if there is $$ left over, pay me some profit-sharing. I expect the pay on the 15th and 30th. I do not expect/plan on/rely upon a distribution on the 14th of February.

crewdawg

Taking away PS is a Pandora's box the company doesn't want to open. When you roll it into rates, it goes unseen. However, keep it separate and have that carrot (on 14FEB) and people see it as a reward for helping the company. Take away that reward and what is the incentive to single-engine taxi, wait to turn on the APU or hurry to turn it off, etc... My guess is it wouldn't take long for the company to see impact of getting rid of PS.

Keep PS decoupled from pay. Don't touch PS, for the benefit of the employees and the company.

gzsg

Please refute all my numbers Mantooth, Sailing, Winnie the Pooh.

How many more Delta pilots would we need if we did 100% of the DCI flying?

How many more Delta pilots would we need if we ended PBS tomorrow?

How many more Delta pilots if we had SWA trips touching vacation?

How many more Delta pilots if we had :54 minute TFP?

6.5 TFP reserve day?

6.5 TFP training day?

These guys love to say I am wrong, but notice they will not answer any of these questions.

And they will never use their real names.

Jerry Fielding

Flytolive

Is it nice in fantasyland?

404yxl

They can't. DCI alone would add a ton of pilots to Delta's seniority list. What is even more sad is a moderator calling your statement absurd for saying so.

80, just to keep things straight here. How many pilots are employed by the Delta Connection Carriers? You said his statement was absurd. I would like to know how.

Where is he wrong? Please state the facts.

How many pilots are at the outsourced Delta Connection Carriers that Southwest doesn't allow to be outsourced?

Flytolive

By pretending Southwest is a hub and spoke, global network carrier and that all previously outsource feeder flying could be mainlined in one contract.

404yxl

You refused to answer the direct questions, so we know you know you are incorrect.

So again, how many pilots are at the outsourced Delta Connection Carriers that Southwest doesn't allow to be outsourced? There is no law required 50-76 set aircraft to be outsourced.

Flytolive

The status quo is that the three network carriers outsource a significant amount of their feed through binding capacity purchase agreements that simply cannot and will not be unwound overnight. Thankfully, the growing pilot/pay shortage is slowly bringing the flying back to mainline operations. Just like cargo flying Southwest's operation is significantly dissimilar and therefore their pilot contract is also quite different.

Maybe in Fantasyland apples are oranges.