Last Year > This Week
08-14-2016, 08:15 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 269
Totally agree Cog!
A few more big rj's with less block hour and no more 50 seaters....neah!
No more 270 hour PTO disguised as sick....who cares..?.(yeah them!)
18,5,5 with no change to PS...Gold!
100% retro....
Company cannot legally sign a contract with JV out of balance....Fix it....
75 % PASS easily!
Sam and Scott are fighting FOR you Jerry.....It's the anti-mec who's stalling!
OUT!
A few more big rj's with less block hour and no more 50 seaters....neah!
No more 270 hour PTO disguised as sick....who cares..?.(yeah them!)
18,5,5 with no change to PS...Gold!
100% retro....
Company cannot legally sign a contract with JV out of balance....Fix it....
75 % PASS easily!
Sam and Scott are fighting FOR you Jerry.....It's the anti-mec who's stalling!
OUT!
08-14-2016, 08:16 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Its a math problem if you keep 20% at any threshold. IE go to 5,10,15 billion in profit if they will pay full value and keep the 20% above it. most pilots got PS checks of 40-60K last year. Thats a ton of money to be up for grabs with a math problem. Converting it "hedges" it. With there the company is financially, it would take a decade of significant losses to even have a remote chance of getting concessions from us. I prefer to make sure that money stays ours and doesn't go away if some moron parks a jet in an building.
On the other hand, PS is the only way we can really 'benefit' from all the JVs we now have. As long as we have the amount of outsourced flying we do (and sans a new deal, I firmly believe that will only increase) we cannot receive a cut of the pie that DAL makes from any of those partners. I think we need to get outside the box on this one, but I am not sure how.
08-14-2016, 08:19 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,456
One final point and I'm back to permanent lurking and you can have your echo chamber back:
The NMB looks at pattern bargaining and is not going to take a position of mediating, proffering, or arbitrating a contract that falls outside of the incremental increases of other recent carriers (total value as opposed to cherry pick the best of each) contracts.
But hey, they can pack sand and are not on your Xmas card list. Hope you at least paid attention to TVM as far your retirement planning goes
The NMB looks at pattern bargaining and is not going to take a position of mediating, proffering, or arbitrating a contract that falls outside of the incremental increases of other recent carriers (total value as opposed to cherry pick the best of each) contracts.
But hey, they can pack sand and are not on your Xmas card list. Hope you at least paid attention to TVM as far your retirement planning goes
08-14-2016, 08:19 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 269
The reps own the AIP's and some are trying to squirm out of them now that they allowed them to see the light of day. They can be tweaked but they need to get real on other items for the company and NMB to have the willingness to allow them. IE compromise.
BTW I not like a lot of these AIP's. Don't fool yourself either, it takes ten to get direction and many of the honorable 12 voted for these AIP's or the NC would have not proceeded. Its self evident that some of these reps do not know the contract they are negotiating with.
08-14-2016, 08:23 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 269
What you have are a group of new Reps who were elected by their angry internet friends, primarily on a "kick the bums out we'll show em'" ticket who are now bumping into the reality of inconvenient math that refutes their tough guy claims and clearly demonstrates that TVM with a good possibility of retro and a little less now is worth close to twice as much a year later. My contacts say the NC followed MEC direction, but now the goalposts are being moved by influence of the vocal fringe. Screw the rest of us.
Instead they would rather throw the entire pilot group under the bus than stand up in the crew room and take the heat from the mob that elected them. Almost as bad are a few experienced Reps who should know better, that by participating in the shutting down of open dialogue on a historic level, allowed themselves and the MEC to be held hostage to these same Reps. Had the debate occurred in open there might have been the ability for some with reservations to speak up and possibly reach consensus to a possibly different outcome.
The real problem is the wave of support that these new Reps rode into office on will diminish as this drags out and when the same support starts getting impatient for a deal they will realize the Reps they elected and used their pressure on to stay tough have now likely locked them out of a more valuable deal than they could of had earlier.
I guess then they can Recall, rinse, repeat.
Instead they would rather throw the entire pilot group under the bus than stand up in the crew room and take the heat from the mob that elected them. Almost as bad are a few experienced Reps who should know better, that by participating in the shutting down of open dialogue on a historic level, allowed themselves and the MEC to be held hostage to these same Reps. Had the debate occurred in open there might have been the ability for some with reservations to speak up and possibly reach consensus to a possibly different outcome.
The real problem is the wave of support that these new Reps rode into office on will diminish as this drags out and when the same support starts getting impatient for a deal they will realize the Reps they elected and used their pressure on to stay tough have now likely locked them out of a more valuable deal than they could of had earlier.
I guess then they can Recall, rinse, repeat.
08-14-2016, 08:25 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 269
Everyone wants that. That is easy. Problem is the company has clearly stated that for any deal ever get done, a few of their issues need to be addressed. Case in point is, "the best MEC ever" has realized this as well. With the release of the AIP's the internet has gotten mad, and the MEC is now blinking.
08-14-2016, 08:27 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 269
Agreed, but hes also doing the bidding of a few of his buddies on the MEC.
08-14-2016, 08:31 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 269
I agree with you and that's fine as long as it happens after the ink is dry on this section 6. We get pay increases, THEN monitize the PS.
On the other hand, PS is the only way we can really 'benefit' from all the JVs we now have. As long as we have the amount of outsourced flying we do (and sans a new deal, I firmly believe that will only increase) we cannot receive a cut of the pie that DAL makes from any of those partners. I think we need to get outside the box on this one, but I am not sure how.
On the other hand, PS is the only way we can really 'benefit' from all the JVs we now have. As long as we have the amount of outsourced flying we do (and sans a new deal, I firmly believe that will only increase) we cannot receive a cut of the pie that DAL makes from any of those partners. I think we need to get outside the box on this one, but I am not sure how.
Also remember that even at a 1:1 conversion, you now will get PS on that former PS that could not have PS paid on it. Its about a 3-3.5% multiplier of that money.
PS always happens at the end, but its transparent to the the pilots and likely the MEC as the NC gets direction and then sets table positions and strategy based on that direction.
08-14-2016, 08:32 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 269
I'd say if the MEC has a momentary attack of sanity, you will get full retro, but after the end of the year its gone. Bet on it. It just becomes too costly for the company and the NMB will not force the issue as the precedence is a lump sum.
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