Talk to me about schedule flexibilty @ Delta
08-16-2016, 08:17 AM
#62
Barbie's PIMP
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: The Buck
Posts: 269
That said, I fly the 717. I worked 2 days in July. Dropped everything else. Didn't even need an APD. I dropped a trip in August. I dropped one in May. I have one I'd like to drop in Sept. I'll let you know on the 20th if that works out.
It's not all doom and gloom here. It's just different.
08-16-2016, 09:40 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 133
The horror! How in the hell are you to do it otherwise? The reason you wish to PS deviate is because you have unique-to-you reasons for wanting to do so. Doing it on your own certainly is much more efficient than having to initiate a phone call so the company can do something that we are easily capable of doing.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. In any case if you get rerouted into a non-DH leg (never happened to me in 20 years, ever) then the rest rules would be MORE stringent, not less. Example: in our contract we can have a layover of just nine hours if the last leg is DH-only to finish the trip. It must be ten per FAR 117 if you are flying.
That was a great thing you NWA guys brought (along with vacation slide). At PMDL, it wasn't until 1996 that we got the jumpseat on our own airline! I brought up the JS because guys surely wouldn't want to go to those "good ol' days."
Vacation slide might be the best provision in our entire contract. The NWA guys brought it to the merged company, but it was only +/- 3 days. Our DALPA Scheduling Optimization Team convinced the company to allow pilots to slide vacation any time during the month. I have personally slid vacation more than three weeks! Contrary to your post, vacation slide has been a tremendous improvement to my QOL. And usually if I have vacation, if the ALVs are high, I just bid reserve and have very positive results (though not always).
Vacation slide might be the best provision in our entire contract. The NWA guys brought it to the merged company, but it was only +/- 3 days. Our DALPA Scheduling Optimization Team convinced the company to allow pilots to slide vacation any time during the month. I have personally slid vacation more than three weeks! Contrary to your post, vacation slide has been a tremendous improvement to my QOL. And usually if I have vacation, if the ALVs are high, I just bid reserve and have very positive results (though not always).
Spoken like someone who just doesn't get it. Up until about a decade ago, ATL commuters (there are thousands) who went to initial training of a month or more had to get a crashpad--this wasn't just for new hires. Now we don't. I can't for the life of me understand why you dismiss that. It is a tremendous improvement. Bidding for CQ is also a great improvement. I hate A period sims. Guess what? I will likely never have another. That surely wasn't the case when the company, and not the pilot, scheduled CQ. I like that.
Reserve rules are vastly better...unless you think it a good thing that your first day on call you would get short call at 0300 (every time, per the contract!) and a two day trip that pays 10.30 today only paid four back then. Narrow body captain bids are going to fairly new guys because people don't want to commute to NYC and cover three airports. I don't ascribe it to reserve rules at all.
Some of that I agree with. I agree that we did not have 10.10 overnights at PMDL...we had nine hour overnights, reducible to eight! I couldn't believe it the first time that happened to me...completely legal under the contract and FAR 121. Part 117 isn't perfect but I prefer it to 121. I also find it amusing that guys here want to go back to 121 (which ain't happening) and yet the cargo guys are incensed because they got the "cargo carveout" and still fly under 121, and make statements that they are second class on the safety front, etc.
I think some of the stuff you had at NWA were (and are) superior to what we had/have here. I strongly agree with you that new hires need hotel rooms for the duration of training. It is a disgrace that they do not. (By the way that is something that mgmt can change tomorrow. The fact that they don't says what they truly think of us). I also like your automatic premium pay above 80. I wish we would pursue something like that.
I'll just have to agree with some of that and disagree with a lot of it. I think that DALPA, while far from perfect, has done a good job of trying to improve our contract, one small step at a time. And prior to TA 15, we actually had a lot of small improvements over the past decade, that built on top of each other. I hope that we can do far better than "small improvements" in our next contract, whenever that may happen.
I'll just have to agree with some of that and disagree with a lot of it. I think that DALPA, while far from perfect, has done a good job of trying to improve our contract, one small step at a time. And prior to TA 15, we actually had a lot of small improvements over the past decade, that built on top of each other. I hope that we can do far better than "small improvements" in our next contract, whenever that may happen.
08-16-2016, 01:09 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Pos space deviation from DH, not bad, but hear is the bad part of DHing at Delta:
1. you have to book it yourself on your time
2. You are not automatically given an upgrade to first or economy comfort if available. You will have to play phone tag to finally be offered economy comfort if available 24hours before flight
3. rest requirements are different for DHing, but you still must be rested if they change their minds and re-route you!
We used to just show up at gate and were treated with respect and given either an aisle or window and upgraded automatically if available!
Not sure why you mentioned Jumpseat? NWA brought the positive booking of XCM to/from work helping commuters plan their commutes
Vacation slide? who cares at 3:10credit per vacation day means you will still work 12-14 days, on a month you take 7days of vacation. especially with the ALV system of 84 hours they can build you to 91:30 a month. Better get a good divorce lawyer because you will not be home much to take care of your family!
You can only come up with CQ bidding, yawn!Pos space and hotel for ATL commuters!yawn
Better rules on reserve? is that why all the narrow body captain bids are going to guys hired less then two years ago!
We also had 75 hour caps, had more days off then we worked month after month, the patterns/rotations were more commutable and worth more time! We did not have 10:10 hour overnights with FDP of 12+ hours.
5:15 avg day also has consequences in scheduling too. You only stated the few good examples and even some of the three day Europe trips were helped by this method too. It used to be min 5:15 per day which helps prevent having 30 hour domestic layovers with max FDP before and after the overnight. Also brings value of trips up.
10-20 years ago we had QOL built into the contract! We had a retirement! We had premium above 80 hours, We paid for new hire hotel rooms! All I remember is my checks were good and I did not feel tired all the time from the scheduling abuse we are receiving today!
3-4 years ago we are still living with a bankrupt era contract that has not improved much in TA2012(which we are willing to live with compared to the pos TA2015 they tried to deliver) and with the latest failed TA2015 and numerous other failed LOAs and now the most pathetic negotiations of concessions still being written as we speak, I stand by my words that Delta work rules, QOL have continue to fall compared to were they were when I got hired at NWA! I did not save my old contracts, but my body is telling me that our QOL is bad and it feels like they are trying to kill me, I guess because I no longer have a retirement, they are trying to do me a favor!
I was not a big fan of NWA as far as employee/management relations went and thought I escaped that with the merge to finally understand that I am right back were I started, but have an association who thinks its still part of the Delta Family has been ruining our careers since exiting bankruptcy.
1. you have to book it yourself on your time
2. You are not automatically given an upgrade to first or economy comfort if available. You will have to play phone tag to finally be offered economy comfort if available 24hours before flight
3. rest requirements are different for DHing, but you still must be rested if they change their minds and re-route you!
We used to just show up at gate and were treated with respect and given either an aisle or window and upgraded automatically if available!
Not sure why you mentioned Jumpseat? NWA brought the positive booking of XCM to/from work helping commuters plan their commutes
Vacation slide? who cares at 3:10credit per vacation day means you will still work 12-14 days, on a month you take 7days of vacation. especially with the ALV system of 84 hours they can build you to 91:30 a month. Better get a good divorce lawyer because you will not be home much to take care of your family!
You can only come up with CQ bidding, yawn!Pos space and hotel for ATL commuters!yawn
Better rules on reserve? is that why all the narrow body captain bids are going to guys hired less then two years ago!
We also had 75 hour caps, had more days off then we worked month after month, the patterns/rotations were more commutable and worth more time! We did not have 10:10 hour overnights with FDP of 12+ hours.
5:15 avg day also has consequences in scheduling too. You only stated the few good examples and even some of the three day Europe trips were helped by this method too. It used to be min 5:15 per day which helps prevent having 30 hour domestic layovers with max FDP before and after the overnight. Also brings value of trips up.
10-20 years ago we had QOL built into the contract! We had a retirement! We had premium above 80 hours, We paid for new hire hotel rooms! All I remember is my checks were good and I did not feel tired all the time from the scheduling abuse we are receiving today!
3-4 years ago we are still living with a bankrupt era contract that has not improved much in TA2012(which we are willing to live with compared to the pos TA2015 they tried to deliver) and with the latest failed TA2015 and numerous other failed LOAs and now the most pathetic negotiations of concessions still being written as we speak, I stand by my words that Delta work rules, QOL have continue to fall compared to were they were when I got hired at NWA! I did not save my old contracts, but my body is telling me that our QOL is bad and it feels like they are trying to kill me, I guess because I no longer have a retirement, they are trying to do me a favor!
I was not a big fan of NWA as far as employee/management relations went and thought I escaped that with the merge to finally understand that I am right back were I started, but have an association who thinks its still part of the Delta Family has been ruining our careers since exiting bankruptcy.
08-16-2016, 03:47 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 133
We are force to do somebodies job for no pay because of attitudes like yours, if you are Delta,you are not ready to fight for better working conditions either, you are ok with how things are going at Delta I guess!
Its not a N-S thing anymore for me, its an association failing on so many levels these past several years.
Someone is thinking about leaving another airline to come to Delta. All the Delta fans, yes men and old school Delta family types who thinks everything is great at Delta and are painting a picture of roses when after said pilot told his story of SWA after only two years of service(what he has now is better then what I am getting at 28% in category) I think he will be very disappointed with our lifestyle and no sign of improvement in the next contract as of now!
Unless he wants to have a quick upgrade, which is never guaranteed to continue, I do not see the benefit. Its nice to have choices now, but no one ever has the crystal ball and in 10 years maybe Delta will be the best place to be, I just don't think its now!
08-16-2016, 06:36 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
The difference is I choose to read all the other drivel on this forum,thanks for adding to the conversation.
We are force to do somebodies job for no pay because of attitudes like yours, if you are Delta,you are not ready to fight for better working conditions either, you are ok with how things are going at Delta I guess!
Its not a N-S thing anymore for me, its an association failing on so many levels these past several years.
Someone is thinking about leaving another airline to come to Delta. All the Delta fans, yes men and old school Delta family types who thinks everything is great at Delta and are painting a picture of roses when after said pilot told his story of SWA after only two years of service(what he has now is better then what I am getting at 28% in category) I think he will be very disappointed with our lifestyle and no sign of improvement in the next contract as of now!
Unless he wants to have a quick upgrade, which is never guaranteed to continue, I do not see the benefit. Its nice to have choices now, but no one ever has the crystal ball and in 10 years maybe Delta will be the best place to be, I just don't think its now!
We are force to do somebodies job for no pay because of attitudes like yours, if you are Delta,you are not ready to fight for better working conditions either, you are ok with how things are going at Delta I guess!
Its not a N-S thing anymore for me, its an association failing on so many levels these past several years.
Someone is thinking about leaving another airline to come to Delta. All the Delta fans, yes men and old school Delta family types who thinks everything is great at Delta and are painting a picture of roses when after said pilot told his story of SWA after only two years of service(what he has now is better then what I am getting at 28% in category) I think he will be very disappointed with our lifestyle and no sign of improvement in the next contract as of now!
Unless he wants to have a quick upgrade, which is never guaranteed to continue, I do not see the benefit. Its nice to have choices now, but no one ever has the crystal ball and in 10 years maybe Delta will be the best place to be, I just don't think its now!
Oh, and vacation slide is a pretty cool thing too.
Oh and while we are at it, since everything is better everywhere else, how is that seniority list thingy going over at AAL? Must be great to have that all ironed out. You know, since it is so awesome over there.
08-16-2016, 06:43 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 133
I was here when we did not have the jumpseat at all, even on our own airline. Then we had to ask the CP for permission to ride it. You are crying about having to book your own POSITIVE SPACE seat online on your own time. Grow the **** up. It doesn't suck here. You are not 'tied to the whippin post'. Pick something worthwhile to whine about.
Oh, and vacation slide is a pretty cool thing too.
Oh, and vacation slide is a pretty cool thing too.
Your expectations are so low and you can't wait to sell the junior guys out for pay rates and fear of no retro! I'm grown up, you just need to grow a pair! I have a whole list of worthwhile things to whine about, but you are not a person that would listen because you know better then everyone else. After a summertime of ALV of 84 hours, yes this place sucks!
08-16-2016, 06:47 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Well I guess I never worked for a $h1T bag operation like that!
Your expectations are so low and you can't wait to sell the junior guys out for pay rates and fear of no retro! I'm grown up, you just need to grow a pair! I have a whole list of worthwhile things to whine about, but you are not a person that would listen because you know better then everyone else. After a summertime of ALV of 84 hours, yes this place sucks!
Your expectations are so low and you can't wait to sell the junior guys out for pay rates and fear of no retro! I'm grown up, you just need to grow a pair! I have a whole list of worthwhile things to whine about, but you are not a person that would listen because you know better then everyone else. After a summertime of ALV of 84 hours, yes this place sucks!
08-16-2016, 06:55 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 133
The truth is not anger! I post less then .08 per day, so I know you are not worthy of my time! have at it, you love to have the last word!
For the pilot asking about schedule flexability and leaving SWA for Delta, I hope you can sift thru all that is out there and make up your own decision.
Good Luck with whatever choice you make! Having a choice is great, but not easy!
For the pilot asking about schedule flexability and leaving SWA for Delta, I hope you can sift thru all that is out there and make up your own decision.
Good Luck with whatever choice you make! Having a choice is great, but not easy!
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