FO Pay
08-05-2016, 07:39 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,995
Just for fun, I ran some numbers...our pay vs UPS for an F/O in the first 10 years of his career - where he's staying as an F/O the whole time. Of course this can't replicate all career paths but I don't think this would be unreasonable. 1,000 hours at each, PS and Retirement not included; UPS rates from above and Delta rates from the 2015 PWA chart.
Delta pilot starts on equipment X and is paid 70.12 no matter what it is...then goes to the 737 for a reasonable mix of pay and seniority in years 2 through 5...then goes to A330 F/O for years 6 through 10.
UPS pilot just rides up the longevity list, maybe retraining along the way and maybe not.
After ten years - UPS pilot's gross is $1.683M and Delta's is $1.398M, a difference of $285k. $174k of that difference happened in the FIRST 5 YEARS alone, for you TVM types.
We've got quite a ways to go to consider ourselves industry-leading.
Delta pilot starts on equipment X and is paid 70.12 no matter what it is...then goes to the 737 for a reasonable mix of pay and seniority in years 2 through 5...then goes to A330 F/O for years 6 through 10.
UPS pilot just rides up the longevity list, maybe retraining along the way and maybe not.
After ten years - UPS pilot's gross is $1.683M and Delta's is $1.398M, a difference of $285k. $174k of that difference happened in the FIRST 5 YEARS alone, for you TVM types.
We've got quite a ways to go to consider ourselves industry-leading.
08-05-2016, 08:04 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Just for fun, I ran some numbers...our pay vs UPS for an F/O in the first 10 years of his career - where he's staying as an F/O the whole time. Of course this can't replicate all career paths but I don't think this would be unreasonable. 1,000 hours at each, PS and Retirement not included; UPS rates from above and Delta rates from the 2015 PWA chart.
Delta pilot starts on equipment X and is paid 70.12 no matter what it is...then goes to the 737 for a reasonable mix of pay and seniority in years 2 through 5...then goes to A330 F/O for years 6 through 10.
UPS pilot just rides up the longevity list, maybe retraining along the way and maybe not.
After ten years - UPS pilot's gross is $1.683M and Delta's is $1.398M, a difference of $285k. $174k of that difference happened in the FIRST 5 YEARS alone, for you TVM types.
We've got quite a ways to go to consider ourselves industry-leading.
Delta pilot starts on equipment X and is paid 70.12 no matter what it is...then goes to the 737 for a reasonable mix of pay and seniority in years 2 through 5...then goes to A330 F/O for years 6 through 10.
UPS pilot just rides up the longevity list, maybe retraining along the way and maybe not.
After ten years - UPS pilot's gross is $1.683M and Delta's is $1.398M, a difference of $285k. $174k of that difference happened in the FIRST 5 YEARS alone, for you TVM types.
We've got quite a ways to go to consider ourselves industry-leading.
I did a study on this right after the merger. The difference in career earnings would be eye watering, and that would be if you upgraded at the first opportunity to the smallest captain seat as soon as possible, and then to the next highest paying seat (basically) as soon as possible. eye.watering.
But we don't want that here.
The math doesn't lie. You young guys are getting screwed by an antiquated system, and it is sold to you by total fear tactics.
08-05-2016, 10:42 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Pay banding - widebody/narrowbody is a good start. But it is just a start. We are missing a window of opportunity to make these moves now when they will have the smallest impact. My previous posts on this subject were extreme sarcasm.
08-05-2016, 10:53 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 360
Now take that $285K and invest it at 10%/year for X years.
I did a study on this right after the merger. The difference in career earnings would be eye watering, and that would be if you upgraded at the first opportunity to the smallest captain seat as soon as possible, and then to the next highest paying seat (basically) as soon as possible. eye.watering.
But we don't want that here.
The math doesn't lie. You young guys are getting screwed by an antiquated system, and it is sold to you by total fear tactics.
I did a study on this right after the merger. The difference in career earnings would be eye watering, and that would be if you upgraded at the first opportunity to the smallest captain seat as soon as possible, and then to the next highest paying seat (basically) as soon as possible. eye.watering.
But we don't want that here.
The math doesn't lie. You young guys are getting screwed by an antiquated system, and it is sold to you by total fear tactics.
08-05-2016, 11:04 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
It's a good average. Some years have been better, some worse. 7-8% is probably a little more realistic on average, but it's doable. There are guys that do a LOT better than me. But glad you got a chuckle from it. Maybe you should take more interest in your retirement plans.
08-05-2016, 11:09 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 360
It's a good average. Some years have been better, some worse. 7-8% is probably a little more realistic on average, but it's doable. There are guys that do a LOT better than me. But glad you got a chuckle from it. Maybe you should take more interest in your retirement plans.
08-05-2016, 07:59 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,456
These numbers are very close to the 2004 767-400 numbers. Even if banding wasn't acceptable it shows RESTORATION is.
http://nebula.wsimg.com/051422c348d1...&alloworigin=1
http://nebula.wsimg.com/051422c348d1...&alloworigin=1
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