SWAPA allowed to pull opener and resubmit
07-17-2016, 12:56 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,678
That is a major flaw in our union's logic and approach to the contract. The company would like us to think we are in negotiations. That binds us to an ages old paradigm of give and take to reach an agreement. The reality is that we are a commodity with a going rate of 300/hr for a WB captain, with 5 wks vacation paid at 5:15 per day. I'm to the point where my 75% pay compared to market rates is becoming 75% effort. It's not intentional, rather an insidious onset of reduced GAS factor as a reflection of management's treatment of the pilot group.
The market price has been set by UPS and United. The trend is further supported by Allegiant pilots being paid more than DL MD-88 pilots. SWAPA has recognized this trend and revised what they expect. It's time for the company to get on board and start paying market rate.
The market price has been set by UPS and United. The trend is further supported by Allegiant pilots being paid more than DL MD-88 pilots. SWAPA has recognized this trend and revised what they expect. It's time for the company to get on board and start paying market rate.
Last edited by Gunfighter; 07-17-2016 at 01:14 PM.
07-17-2016, 01:35 PM
#32
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,897
What would happen to those profits and the coveted JDPower awards if all Delta pilots stopped flying ANY overtime and flew to the exact letter of the PWA/FOM? The schedule would grind to a halt. We pilots have kept this operation going for decades through our "above and beyond" attitude and management refuses to acknowledge that fact.
Released to strike, maybe no. How about released to self help? Reference above.
07-17-2016, 03:30 PM
#33
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
There is only release.
The union is then free to strike and management is free to lock us out or impose contract terms.
That does not mean we would have to strike. There are many things we can do short of a full shut down. Strike on Tuesdays. Strike the MD88s. Strike the 777s. Strike New York one day. Strike Atlanta the next. Walk out for a limited time. Wildcat job actions of an infinite variety. etc. etc.
Once the NMB releases the parties, then only the President can stop self-help with a famous Donatelli "PEB". And then only for a limited time.
The only ones with full power to stop a strike after release is Congress. They can write a new contract and impose it. That's never happened in the airline industry although they have done it to railroads in the past.
Last edited by Check Essential; 07-17-2016 at 04:02 PM.
07-17-2016, 04:18 PM
#34
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Decoupled
Posts: 922
Allow me to point out that during the self-help phase the Company can only impose a contract based on their last table position. They can't improve the beatings. This is why most parties released to self-help tend to go full strike. We would have to work under this imposed contract.
07-17-2016, 05:03 PM
#35
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,571
I'm merely pointing out that if we are waiting for a deal with zero trades we're going to be waiting a long time.
Fortunately, we have PS as a hedge against that delay. I'm happy with that and hope we get a deal severely stacked in our favor. I just don't think it will be soon. I hope I'm wrong and I'll be the first to come here and say I was wrong.
Fortunately, we have PS as a hedge against that delay. I'm happy with that and hope we get a deal severely stacked in our favor. I just don't think it will be soon. I hope I'm wrong and I'll be the first to come here and say I was wrong.
If it takes a long time, its because management wants it to take a long time. You can't push a rope or negotiate with a wall.
07-17-2016, 06:58 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,138
Like I said I hope I'm wrong. My personal opinion on UAL, is that Munoz came in and made a peace offering to get going. Sort of like bringing dessert/wine to a party when you are a guest. This is strictly my interpretation of why the UAL deal was offered as such.
07-17-2016, 07:13 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,159
We have guys playing checkers in the midst of a chess match and we all know how long a world class chess-match takes to finish. Grab some popcorn, find a NetFlix series you like and enjoy the ride because this is going to take a while if we want it done right.
Last edited by FL370esq; 07-17-2016 at 07:14 PM. Reason: typo
07-20-2016, 10:43 AM
#38
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
There's nothing scandalous or unprecedented about pulling an opener. Its common, and expected by the NMB, when you are leapfrogged. The market for pilots is rising, and it just rose. Even our "re-opener" was based largely on near zero concessions. Since then the floor has risen dramatically and we have been passed by. That should raise our minimum significantly. They should have signed our bargain counter when they had the chance.
07-21-2016, 10:06 AM
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 95
There's nothing scandalous or unprecedented about pulling an opener. Its common, and expected by the NMB, when you are leapfrogged. The market for pilots is rising, and it just rose. Even our "re-opener" was based largely on near zero concessions. Since then the floor has risen dramatically and we have been passed by. That should raise our minimum significantly. They should have signed our bargain counter when they had the chance.
07-21-2016, 01:06 PM
#40
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 737n/FO
Posts: 667
Objectively, there were most certainly 'gives' in the UPS TA. Reserves rules were changed to make them more somewhat more flexible and therefore potentially more productive, as an example.
There were also plenty of 'takes'; the reserve flexibility above was mitigated with a number of restrictions/protections and reserves owe one less duty day to the company.
In the end, IMO, there are many more 'takes' than there were 'gives' and the TA represents no home runs but very solid gains across the entire CBA.
To expect absolutely zero 'trades' whatsoever is, IMO, unrealistic.
There were also plenty of 'takes'; the reserve flexibility above was mitigated with a number of restrictions/protections and reserves owe one less duty day to the company.
In the end, IMO, there are many more 'takes' than there were 'gives' and the TA represents no home runs but very solid gains across the entire CBA.
To expect absolutely zero 'trades' whatsoever is, IMO, unrealistic.
