June 24th Plan Of Action
06-13-2016, 03:25 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
June 24th Plan Of Action
In my opinion, if there is no TA by June 24th, we need to pull our counterproposal off the table.
We need to have a new survey online for all the Delta pilots.
The new counterproposal needs to include at a minimum:
1) restoration of the DB plan or equalivant.
2) 5:15 min day. We have none and the flight attendants have 4:45 today.
3) reduced medical premiums and a max deductible for families of $250 annually.
We deserve a contract that reflects the level of profitability that Delta has today. American's Doug Paeker does a great job laying out how the airline industry has changed forever and our contract needs to reflect that change.
Rushing into a mediocre deal would be a travesty. One we will long regret.
What is the risk of waiting little longer?
We have our profit sharing intact and we have our contract intact without the concessions we know are coming our way.
Let me share with you a trait the majority of successful people share:
They are fearless.
Now is the time to be fearless.
__________________
Jerry Fielding
We need to have a new survey online for all the Delta pilots.
The new counterproposal needs to include at a minimum:
1) restoration of the DB plan or equalivant.
2) 5:15 min day. We have none and the flight attendants have 4:45 today.
3) reduced medical premiums and a max deductible for families of $250 annually.
We deserve a contract that reflects the level of profitability that Delta has today. American's Doug Paeker does a great job laying out how the airline industry has changed forever and our contract needs to reflect that change.
Rushing into a mediocre deal would be a travesty. One we will long regret.
What is the risk of waiting little longer?
We have our profit sharing intact and we have our contract intact without the concessions we know are coming our way.
Let me share with you a trait the majority of successful people share:
They are fearless.
Now is the time to be fearless.
__________________
Jerry Fielding
06-13-2016, 05:24 AM
#3
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
This is between the pilots and management.
The "RLA framework process" is broken and totally dysfunctional.
Look at Southwest.
We will get a contract when we convince management it is in their best interest to sign one.
There are perfectly legal methods that do not depend on the NMB.
06-13-2016, 01:00 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
The NMB is irrelevant.
This is between the pilots and management.
The "RLA framework process" is broken and totally dysfunctional.
Look at Southwest.
We will get a contract when we convince management it is in their best interest to sign one.
There are perfectly legal methods that do not depend on the NMB.
This is between the pilots and management.
The "RLA framework process" is broken and totally dysfunctional.
Look at Southwest.
We will get a contract when we convince management it is in their best interest to sign one.
There are perfectly legal methods that do not depend on the NMB.
06-13-2016, 04:36 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: One with wings
Posts: 332
The Co is playing us like a fiddle, saying the right things, coming to the table, "using our words".....all to create an image of negotiation and progress. I bet they drag this through the summer to get us suckers to continue going above & beyond & wins them some more awards, stock options & bonuses.
If we have a TA that we can all strongly vote for before Sept I'll gladly eat my words.
If we don't then they'll drag this out until it costs them more NOT to have a contract. At that point the only way to achieve that is
If we have a TA that we can all strongly vote for before Sept I'll gladly eat my words.
If we don't then they'll drag this out until it costs them more NOT to have a contract. At that point the only way to achieve that is
06-13-2016, 07:15 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 845
The Co is playing us like a fiddle, saying the right things, coming to the table, "using our words".....all to create an image of negotiation and progress. I bet they drag this through the summer to get us suckers to continue going above & beyond & wins them some more awards, stock options & bonuses.
If we have a TA that we can all strongly vote for before Sept I'll gladly eat my words.
If we don't then they'll drag this out until it costs them more NOT to have a contract. At that point the only way to achieve that is
If we have a TA that we can all strongly vote for before Sept I'll gladly eat my words.
If we don't then they'll drag this out until it costs them more NOT to have a contract. At that point the only way to achieve that is
06-13-2016, 07:53 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
for the record
You are dealing with Northwest Airlines style management
Review their accomplishments during negotiations from the Nyrop days to Rothmeier to Dasburg to Anderson to Steenland and you can see the pattern here...did I miss anyone else ? Chechi , pipe smoker Wilson !!!!!
Best of luck and watch your back. They like to fire pilot during negotiations and negotiate their reinstatement on the negotiations table
You are dealing with Northwest Airlines style management
Review their accomplishments during negotiations from the Nyrop days to Rothmeier to Dasburg to Anderson to Steenland and you can see the pattern here...did I miss anyone else ? Chechi , pipe smoker Wilson !!!!!
Best of luck and watch your back. They like to fire pilot during negotiations and negotiate their reinstatement on the negotiations table
06-13-2016, 08:43 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
Posts: 1,508
In my opinion, if there is no TA by June 24th, we need to pull our counterproposal off the table.
We need to have a new survey online for all the Delta pilots.
The new counterproposal needs to include at a minimum:
1) restoration of the DB plan or equalivant.
2) 5:15 min day. We have none and the flight attendants have 4:45 today.
3) reduced medical premiums and a max deductible for families of $250 annually.
We deserve a contract that reflects the level of profitability that Delta has today. American's Doug Paeker does a great job laying out how the airline industry has changed forever and our contract needs to reflect that change.
Rushing into a mediocre deal would be a travesty. One we will long regret.
What is the risk of waiting little longer?
We have our profit sharing intact and we have our contract intact without the concessions we know are coming our way.
Let me share with you a trait the majority of successful people share:
They are fearless.
Now is the time to be fearless.
__________________
Jerry Fielding
We need to have a new survey online for all the Delta pilots.
The new counterproposal needs to include at a minimum:
1) restoration of the DB plan or equalivant.
2) 5:15 min day. We have none and the flight attendants have 4:45 today.
3) reduced medical premiums and a max deductible for families of $250 annually.
We deserve a contract that reflects the level of profitability that Delta has today. American's Doug Paeker does a great job laying out how the airline industry has changed forever and our contract needs to reflect that change.
Rushing into a mediocre deal would be a travesty. One we will long regret.
What is the risk of waiting little longer?
We have our profit sharing intact and we have our contract intact without the concessions we know are coming our way.
Let me share with you a trait the majority of successful people share:
They are fearless.
Now is the time to be fearless.
__________________
Jerry Fielding
06-13-2016, 08:43 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
Posts: 1,508
The NMB is irrelevant.
This is between the pilots and management.
The "RLA framework process" is broken and totally dysfunctional.
Look at Southwest.
We will get a contract when we convince management it is in their best interest to sign one.
There are perfectly legal methods that do not depend on the NMB.
This is between the pilots and management.
The "RLA framework process" is broken and totally dysfunctional.
Look at Southwest.
We will get a contract when we convince management it is in their best interest to sign one.
There are perfectly legal methods that do not depend on the NMB.
06-13-2016, 09:20 PM
#10
Snake
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 242
In my opinion, if there is no TA by June 24th, we need to pull our counterproposal off the table.
That is a breathtakingly stupid idea. We would be showing anyone who could read that we were unable to bargain in good faith, and undermining our negotiators at the table. I know you learned this brilliant tactic early in your career, and it was central to the so-called "leadership" of the NWA MEC. It never worked, so what makes you think it will work this time? These are the same clowns who cost their members more than $250 million during the JCBA because we wouldn't agree to staple ourselves to the bottom of their list. Instead of dealing honestly, they pumped their members full of lies, and their chairman went on a fishing trip to Mexico instead of staying at the table (and they went absolutely insane when we cut LOA 19 without them). The same people are now pushing for the same maneuver, to double down on our demands, to walk away from the table, blame it all on a few convenient scapegoats, and above all else, stay in power. NO THANKS.
We need to have a new survey online for all the Delta pilots.
Of course. Because "more money, and more time off, and sooner rather than later" is certainly stale by now.
The new counterproposal needs to include at a minimum:
1) restoration of the DB plan or equalivant.
Money for old farts who suck at investing, and a big fat IOU for junior pilots? No freaking way. I want the money up-front and in my name. You sure about that survey? You might not like what the majority has to say about this.
2) 5:15 min day. We have none and the flight attendants have 4:45 today.
Cherry picking. Should we demand A days too?
3) reduced medical premiums and a max deductible for families of $250 annually.
I think you're just spitballing here. Pandering to the crowd, and just piling on demands instead of actually thinking about this. It's just "money" to management; how we divide it up is up to us. But if the majority is fine with it, so am I.
We deserve a contract that reflects the level of profitability that Delta has today. American's Doug Paeker does a great job laying out how the airline industry has changed forever and our contract needs to reflect that change.
"We deserve." Come on. We never get anything because we deserve it. We get whatever our leverage is worth. Doug Parker is carrying your water now? Please, those guys don't even have the leverage for proper trip rig.
Rushing into a mediocre deal would be a travesty. One we will long regret.
Don't worry, because I'm pretty sure that Malone could offer the cure for cancer, and the MEC would vote it down. This summer will be carnage. In the best case, Malone will close a deal with the company before Labor Day. I wish I could believe that the MEC is remotely capable of letting that deal see the light of day.
What is the risk of waiting little longer?
I will remind you that you said that. In five years, when we're still parked.
We have our profit sharing intact and we have our contract intact without the concessions we know are coming our way.
Profit sharing is variable income. It varies. Just like our profits. Go ahead and wail about "concessions." No TA has ever been written that didn't include a reason for both sides to sign it. Bastian isn't just going to roll over. All I want is a bigger W2, some more time off, and some more money in retirement.
Let me share with you a trait the majority of successful people share: They are fearless. Now is the time to be fearless.
Yeah, that's just weird bro. You can't be brave unless you're scared out of your wits, but you saddle up anyway.
You won't like the next TA, no matter how it gets here, whether that's MEMRAT, a court order, or an act of congress (and who knows for sure - you're on the "forever" plan, after all). I would prefer a deal that is negotiated directly between the association and management, and you would prefer an instrument of surrender. You're living in fantasyland.
The company isn't going to roll over on June 24th, and you know it. You're just trying to pave the way to recall Malone and the negotiators (except for your boy Heiko, of course). You're just part of the Detroit machine that puts politics above everything else.
That is a breathtakingly stupid idea. We would be showing anyone who could read that we were unable to bargain in good faith, and undermining our negotiators at the table. I know you learned this brilliant tactic early in your career, and it was central to the so-called "leadership" of the NWA MEC. It never worked, so what makes you think it will work this time? These are the same clowns who cost their members more than $250 million during the JCBA because we wouldn't agree to staple ourselves to the bottom of their list. Instead of dealing honestly, they pumped their members full of lies, and their chairman went on a fishing trip to Mexico instead of staying at the table (and they went absolutely insane when we cut LOA 19 without them). The same people are now pushing for the same maneuver, to double down on our demands, to walk away from the table, blame it all on a few convenient scapegoats, and above all else, stay in power. NO THANKS.
We need to have a new survey online for all the Delta pilots.
Of course. Because "more money, and more time off, and sooner rather than later" is certainly stale by now.
The new counterproposal needs to include at a minimum:
1) restoration of the DB plan or equalivant.
Money for old farts who suck at investing, and a big fat IOU for junior pilots? No freaking way. I want the money up-front and in my name. You sure about that survey? You might not like what the majority has to say about this.
2) 5:15 min day. We have none and the flight attendants have 4:45 today.
Cherry picking. Should we demand A days too?
3) reduced medical premiums and a max deductible for families of $250 annually.
I think you're just spitballing here. Pandering to the crowd, and just piling on demands instead of actually thinking about this. It's just "money" to management; how we divide it up is up to us. But if the majority is fine with it, so am I.
We deserve a contract that reflects the level of profitability that Delta has today. American's Doug Paeker does a great job laying out how the airline industry has changed forever and our contract needs to reflect that change.
"We deserve." Come on. We never get anything because we deserve it. We get whatever our leverage is worth. Doug Parker is carrying your water now? Please, those guys don't even have the leverage for proper trip rig.
Rushing into a mediocre deal would be a travesty. One we will long regret.
Don't worry, because I'm pretty sure that Malone could offer the cure for cancer, and the MEC would vote it down. This summer will be carnage. In the best case, Malone will close a deal with the company before Labor Day. I wish I could believe that the MEC is remotely capable of letting that deal see the light of day.
What is the risk of waiting little longer?
I will remind you that you said that. In five years, when we're still parked.
We have our profit sharing intact and we have our contract intact without the concessions we know are coming our way.
Profit sharing is variable income. It varies. Just like our profits. Go ahead and wail about "concessions." No TA has ever been written that didn't include a reason for both sides to sign it. Bastian isn't just going to roll over. All I want is a bigger W2, some more time off, and some more money in retirement.
Let me share with you a trait the majority of successful people share: They are fearless. Now is the time to be fearless.
Yeah, that's just weird bro. You can't be brave unless you're scared out of your wits, but you saddle up anyway.
You won't like the next TA, no matter how it gets here, whether that's MEMRAT, a court order, or an act of congress (and who knows for sure - you're on the "forever" plan, after all). I would prefer a deal that is negotiated directly between the association and management, and you would prefer an instrument of surrender. You're living in fantasyland.
The company isn't going to roll over on June 24th, and you know it. You're just trying to pave the way to recall Malone and the negotiators (except for your boy Heiko, of course). You're just part of the Detroit machine that puts politics above everything else.
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