The Case For Voting Yes - Multiple Parts
07-02-2015, 10:04 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,418
The Case For Voting Yes - Multiple Parts
Upon further reflection there is a case for voting Yes and it is multi-layered.
First, even as they are held in disdain by many, the pay rate raises in this TA are significant. In all, a 21.45% increase in pay rates which will give a 767 Captain a raise of $1,486 a month based on 82 hours on July 1. On January 1 it becomes a raise of $2,706. Not insignificant amounts. These pay raises remain in place independent of any decrease in profits. These are conservative calculations. At 90 hours it is almost $3,000 a month more beginning in January. $4,400 more a month based on 90 hours by 2018. The above net gains assume profit will stay at 16% of W-2 after the profit sharing cut as profits increase - which everyone assumes they will (at this time). PS payout for 2/15/2016 is estimated to be 22%. So, 22% - 5.44% = 16.56%. Almost the same as last year. Also, if Delta adds employees and profit sharing does become diluted your pay is locked in with pay rates.
Also, if profits drop you are in fact protected by the increased pay rates.
Additionally, vacation and training pay increase. Per diem increases at the derided nickel rate which matches inflation almost perfectly. DCSP increases 1%. Think compound interest if you're young.
Much has been made of the net pay raises or lack thereof. In fact, after all profit sharing adjustments are made it is a pay raise of 5.34% a year [ (21.45% - 5.44%) / 3 ]. (In 2018 the profit sharing reduction after net pay raises reduces the trade to 5.14% from 5.74%. Therefore I calculate the net trade average over three years at 5.44%). An average net 5.34% net increase in pay is significant.
This contract is not that much different than C2012 in terms of money. C2012 was a net 17.7% increase and C2015 is a net 16.54% increase. About 1% difference. 16.54% on top of our previous contract is in sum worth more than the total pay increase last time. For example, $100 X 17.17% = $117.70 but $117.70 X 16.54% = $137.17. $1.77 more. I don't care how you slice it this TA is some serious coin. Just what everyone has been screaming for. Here it is.
For me $4,400 a month. $52,800 a year.
Let me guess. I shouldn't believe my lying eyes.
This plus increasing profit sharing will put us about 20% more than American. For those assuming we could easily obtain more than that may be living in fantasyland as has been stated by those on the NMB.
First, even as they are held in disdain by many, the pay rate raises in this TA are significant. In all, a 21.45% increase in pay rates which will give a 767 Captain a raise of $1,486 a month based on 82 hours on July 1. On January 1 it becomes a raise of $2,706. Not insignificant amounts. These pay raises remain in place independent of any decrease in profits. These are conservative calculations. At 90 hours it is almost $3,000 a month more beginning in January. $4,400 more a month based on 90 hours by 2018. The above net gains assume profit will stay at 16% of W-2 after the profit sharing cut as profits increase - which everyone assumes they will (at this time). PS payout for 2/15/2016 is estimated to be 22%. So, 22% - 5.44% = 16.56%. Almost the same as last year. Also, if Delta adds employees and profit sharing does become diluted your pay is locked in with pay rates.
Also, if profits drop you are in fact protected by the increased pay rates.
Additionally, vacation and training pay increase. Per diem increases at the derided nickel rate which matches inflation almost perfectly. DCSP increases 1%. Think compound interest if you're young.
Much has been made of the net pay raises or lack thereof. In fact, after all profit sharing adjustments are made it is a pay raise of 5.34% a year [ (21.45% - 5.44%) / 3 ]. (In 2018 the profit sharing reduction after net pay raises reduces the trade to 5.14% from 5.74%. Therefore I calculate the net trade average over three years at 5.44%). An average net 5.34% net increase in pay is significant.
This contract is not that much different than C2012 in terms of money. C2012 was a net 17.7% increase and C2015 is a net 16.54% increase. About 1% difference. 16.54% on top of our previous contract is in sum worth more than the total pay increase last time. For example, $100 X 17.17% = $117.70 but $117.70 X 16.54% = $137.17. $1.77 more. I don't care how you slice it this TA is some serious coin. Just what everyone has been screaming for. Here it is.
For me $4,400 a month. $52,800 a year.
Let me guess. I shouldn't believe my lying eyes.
This plus increasing profit sharing will put us about 20% more than American. For those assuming we could easily obtain more than that may be living in fantasyland as has been stated by those on the NMB.
07-02-2015, 10:09 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Upon further reflection there is a case for voting Yes and it is multi-layered.
First, even as they are held in disdain by many, the pay rate raises in this TA are significant. In all, a 21.45% increase in pay rates which will give a 767 Captain a raise of $1,486 a month based on 82 hours on July 1. On January 1 it becomes a raise of $2,706. Not insignificant amounts. These pay raises remain in place independent of any decrease in profits. These are conservative calculations. At 90 hours it is almost $3,000 a month more beginning in January. $4,400 more a month based on 90 hours by 2018. The above net gains assume profit will stay at 16% of W-2 after the profit sharing cut as profits increase - which everyone assumes they will (at this time). PS payout for 2/15/2016 is estimated to be 22%. So, 22% - 5.44% = 16.56%. Almost the same as last year. Also, if Delta adds employees and profit sharing does become diluted your pay is locked in with pay rates.
Also, if profits drop you are in fact protected by the increased pay rates.
Additionally, vacation and training pay increase. Per diem increases at the derided nickel rate which matches inflation almost perfectly. DCSP increases 1%. Think compound interest if you're young.
Much has been made of the net pay raises or lack thereof. In fact, after all profit sharing adjustments are made it is a pay raise of 5.34% a year [ (21.45% - 5.44%) / 3 ]. (In 2018 the profit sharing reduction after net pay raises reduces the trade to 5.14% from 5.74%. Therefore I calculate the net trade average over three years at 5.44%). An average net 5.34% net increase in pay is significant.
This contract is not that much different than C2012 in terms of money. C2012 was a net 17.7% increase and C2015 is a net 16.54% increase. About 1% difference. 16.54% on top of our previous contract is in sum worth more than the total pay increase last time. For example, $100 X 17.17% = $117.70 but $117.70 X 16.54% = $137.17. $1.77 more. I don't care how you slice it this TA is some serious coin. Just what everyone has been screaming for. Here it is.
For me $4,400 a month. $52,800 a year.
Let me guess. I shouldn't believe my lying eyes.
This plus increasing profit sharing will put us about 20% more than American. For those assuming we could easily obtain more than that may be living in fantasyland as has been stated by those on the NMB.
First, even as they are held in disdain by many, the pay rate raises in this TA are significant. In all, a 21.45% increase in pay rates which will give a 767 Captain a raise of $1,486 a month based on 82 hours on July 1. On January 1 it becomes a raise of $2,706. Not insignificant amounts. These pay raises remain in place independent of any decrease in profits. These are conservative calculations. At 90 hours it is almost $3,000 a month more beginning in January. $4,400 more a month based on 90 hours by 2018. The above net gains assume profit will stay at 16% of W-2 after the profit sharing cut as profits increase - which everyone assumes they will (at this time). PS payout for 2/15/2016 is estimated to be 22%. So, 22% - 5.44% = 16.56%. Almost the same as last year. Also, if Delta adds employees and profit sharing does become diluted your pay is locked in with pay rates.
Also, if profits drop you are in fact protected by the increased pay rates.
Additionally, vacation and training pay increase. Per diem increases at the derided nickel rate which matches inflation almost perfectly. DCSP increases 1%. Think compound interest if you're young.
Much has been made of the net pay raises or lack thereof. In fact, after all profit sharing adjustments are made it is a pay raise of 5.34% a year [ (21.45% - 5.44%) / 3 ]. (In 2018 the profit sharing reduction after net pay raises reduces the trade to 5.14% from 5.74%. Therefore I calculate the net trade average over three years at 5.44%). An average net 5.34% net increase in pay is significant.
This contract is not that much different than C2012 in terms of money. C2012 was a net 17.7% increase and C2015 is a net 16.54% increase. About 1% difference. 16.54% on top of our previous contract is in sum worth more than the total pay increase last time. For example, $100 X 17.17% = $117.70 but $117.70 X 16.54% = $137.17. $1.77 more. I don't care how you slice it this TA is some serious coin. Just what everyone has been screaming for. Here it is.
For me $4,400 a month. $52,800 a year.
Let me guess. I shouldn't believe my lying eyes.
This plus increasing profit sharing will put us about 20% more than American. For those assuming we could easily obtain more than that may be living in fantasyland as has been stated by those on the NMB.
On pay you use 90 hours to make pay look BIG? yet on sick time the machine spins 15 day as a month to make the concession look minuscule? What is wrong with you guys. Just be HONEST. Stop promoting this garbage.
STOP BULL-CRAPPING. GIVE IT A REST.
TEN
07-02-2015, 10:11 AM
#3
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 9
Life isn't all about money.
I voted NO.
I did it because we don't need to agree to ANY concessions in this environment. If the increases were bigger I'd still vote NO.
NO to throwing FO seniority under the bus.
NO to intrusive and overreaching sick leave language.
NO to concessionary jointventure/scope language.
I voted NO.
I did it because we don't need to agree to ANY concessions in this environment. If the increases were bigger I'd still vote NO.
NO to throwing FO seniority under the bus.
NO to intrusive and overreaching sick leave language.
NO to concessionary jointventure/scope language.
07-02-2015, 10:22 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: A330 First Officer
Posts: 1,465
[QUOTE=ERflyer;19206
This contract is not that much different than C2012 in terms of money. C2012 was a net 17.7% increase and C2015 is a net 16.54% increase.
[/QUOTE]
I think you are actually making the NO voters point here. Look at the company financials then versus today. This is the economic environment that Dalpa has always been saying that we were waiting for, however this is not the product that we were expecting.
This contract is not that much different than C2012 in terms of money. C2012 was a net 17.7% increase and C2015 is a net 16.54% increase.
[/QUOTE]
I think you are actually making the NO voters point here. Look at the company financials then versus today. This is the economic environment that Dalpa has always been saying that we were waiting for, however this is not the product that we were expecting.
07-02-2015, 01:19 PM
#5
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
You spent all that time talking about pay rates. We know, c2015 is more money, we get it.
The reason to vote no is the concessions, not the money. The pay raise isnt worth what were giving up, not by a longshot. If youre a still a junior pilot you are causing great harm to your future career opportunities.
The reason to vote no is the concessions, not the money. The pay raise isnt worth what were giving up, not by a longshot. If youre a still a junior pilot you are causing great harm to your future career opportunities.
07-02-2015, 01:29 PM
#6
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 20
Upon further reflection there is a case for voting Yes and it is multi-layered.
First, even as they are held in disdain by many, the pay rate raises in this TA are significant. In all, a 21.45% increase in pay rates which will give a 767 Captain a raise of $1,486 a month based on 82 hours on July 1. On January 1 it becomes a raise of $2,706. Not insignificant amounts. These pay raises remain in place independent of any decrease in profits. These are conservative calculations. At 90 hours it is almost $3,000 a month more beginning in January. $4,400 more a month based on 90 hours by 2018. The above net gains assume profit will stay at 16% of W-2 after the profit sharing cut as profits increase - which everyone assumes they will (at this time). PS payout for 2/15/2016 is estimated to be 22%. So, 22% - 5.44% = 16.56%. Almost the same as last year. Also, if Delta adds employees and profit sharing does become diluted your pay is locked in with pay rates.
Also, if profits drop you are in fact protected by the increased pay rates.
Additionally, vacation and training pay increase. Per diem increases at the derided nickel rate which matches inflation almost perfectly. DCSP increases 1%. Think compound interest if you're young.
Much has been made of the net pay raises or lack thereof. In fact, after all profit sharing adjustments are made it is a pay raise of 5.34% a year [ (21.45% - 5.44%) / 3 ]. (In 2018 the profit sharing reduction after net pay raises reduces the trade to 5.14% from 5.74%. Therefore I calculate the net trade average over three years at 5.44%). An average net 5.34% net increase in pay is significant.
This contract is not that much different than C2012 in terms of money. C2012 was a net 17.7% increase and C2015 is a net 16.54% increase. About 1% difference. 16.54% on top of our previous contract is in sum worth more than the total pay increase last time. For example, $100 X 17.17% = $117.70 but $117.70 X 16.54% = $137.17. $1.77 more. I don't care how you slice it this TA is some serious coin. Just what everyone has been screaming for. Here it is.
For me $4,400 a month. $52,800 a year.
Let me guess. I shouldn't believe my lying eyes.
This plus increasing profit sharing will put us about 20% more than American. For those assuming we could easily obtain more than that may be living in fantasyland as has been stated by those on the NMB.
First, even as they are held in disdain by many, the pay rate raises in this TA are significant. In all, a 21.45% increase in pay rates which will give a 767 Captain a raise of $1,486 a month based on 82 hours on July 1. On January 1 it becomes a raise of $2,706. Not insignificant amounts. These pay raises remain in place independent of any decrease in profits. These are conservative calculations. At 90 hours it is almost $3,000 a month more beginning in January. $4,400 more a month based on 90 hours by 2018. The above net gains assume profit will stay at 16% of W-2 after the profit sharing cut as profits increase - which everyone assumes they will (at this time). PS payout for 2/15/2016 is estimated to be 22%. So, 22% - 5.44% = 16.56%. Almost the same as last year. Also, if Delta adds employees and profit sharing does become diluted your pay is locked in with pay rates.
Also, if profits drop you are in fact protected by the increased pay rates.
Additionally, vacation and training pay increase. Per diem increases at the derided nickel rate which matches inflation almost perfectly. DCSP increases 1%. Think compound interest if you're young.
Much has been made of the net pay raises or lack thereof. In fact, after all profit sharing adjustments are made it is a pay raise of 5.34% a year [ (21.45% - 5.44%) / 3 ]. (In 2018 the profit sharing reduction after net pay raises reduces the trade to 5.14% from 5.74%. Therefore I calculate the net trade average over three years at 5.44%). An average net 5.34% net increase in pay is significant.
This contract is not that much different than C2012 in terms of money. C2012 was a net 17.7% increase and C2015 is a net 16.54% increase. About 1% difference. 16.54% on top of our previous contract is in sum worth more than the total pay increase last time. For example, $100 X 17.17% = $117.70 but $117.70 X 16.54% = $137.17. $1.77 more. I don't care how you slice it this TA is some serious coin. Just what everyone has been screaming for. Here it is.
For me $4,400 a month. $52,800 a year.
Let me guess. I shouldn't believe my lying eyes.
This plus increasing profit sharing will put us about 20% more than American. For those assuming we could easily obtain more than that may be living in fantasyland as has been stated by those on the NMB.
The vast majority of pilots are balanced between paying their bills and keeping their families intact. A lot of them have already lost one of those battles. Tell your Union buddies to factor that into their fantasy "big raises".
This TA is an easy No.
07-02-2015, 02:12 PM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Sitting
Posts: 68
DALPA and all of the people involved have the "bully pulpit". After being kept in the dark for so long, suddenly we are bombarded with letters selling the great wonderfulness of this TA.
We have no other places to expose the deficiencies of this TA, and yet people find the need to come here to sell some more.
We are fighting a losing battle. Good grief.
We have no other places to expose the deficiencies of this TA, and yet people find the need to come here to sell some more.
We are fighting a losing battle. Good grief.
07-02-2015, 02:56 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,418
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