The Case For Voting Yes - Multiple Parts
07-09-2015, 12:25 AM
#171
Sick of whiners
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: 767 VEOP
Posts: 507
.
You guys are so rabid with hate that you couldn't care less about the truth. The number is easy to find online. This is as of 2 months ago. And it's far, far away from 3/4 Billion dollars.
http://d1lge852tjjqow.cloudfront.net...efce8f9093.pdf
And BTW, I'm on your side of this issue. I just find it offensive when certain posters resort to outright falsehoods to push their agenda. Everybody has a vote. It helps nobody when you lie and don't own up to it.
In my short time here, I find it interesting that the posters who are called on falsehoods are usually the posters with thousands of posts. As if being a prolific poster gives them a license to run loose with the truth.
.
You guys are so rabid with hate that you couldn't care less about the truth. The number is easy to find online. This is as of 2 months ago. And it's far, far away from 3/4 Billion dollars.
http://d1lge852tjjqow.cloudfront.net...efce8f9093.pdf
And BTW, I'm on your side of this issue. I just find it offensive when certain posters resort to outright falsehoods to push their agenda. Everybody has a vote. It helps nobody when you lie and don't own up to it.
In my short time here, I find it interesting that the posters who are called on falsehoods are usually the posters with thousands of posts. As if being a prolific poster gives them a license to run loose with the truth.
.
Last edited by KnotSoFast; 07-09-2015 at 01:09 AM.
07-09-2015, 03:53 AM
#172
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
07-09-2015, 04:15 AM
#173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
.
You guys are so rabid with hate that you couldn't care less about the truth. The number is easy to find online. This is as of 2 months ago. And it's far, far away from 3/4 Billion dollars.
http://d1lge852tjjqow.cloudfront.net...efce8f9093.pdf
And BTW, I'm on your side of this issue. I just find it offensive when certain posters resort to outright falsehoods to push their agenda. Everybody has a vote. It helps nobody when you lie and don't own up to it.
In my short time here, I find it interesting that the posters who are called on falsehoods are usually the posters with thousands of posts. As if being a prolific poster gives them a license to run loose with the truth.
.
You guys are so rabid with hate that you couldn't care less about the truth. The number is easy to find online. This is as of 2 months ago. And it's far, far away from 3/4 Billion dollars.
http://d1lge852tjjqow.cloudfront.net...efce8f9093.pdf
And BTW, I'm on your side of this issue. I just find it offensive when certain posters resort to outright falsehoods to push their agenda. Everybody has a vote. It helps nobody when you lie and don't own up to it.
In my short time here, I find it interesting that the posters who are called on falsehoods are usually the posters with thousands of posts. As if being a prolific poster gives them a license to run loose with the truth.
.
No it's cool, we get it. The MEC wants us to make a well-informed, unemotional-based vote, as long as its in favor CA2015.
07-09-2015, 05:16 AM
#174
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
.
You guys are so rabid with hate that you couldn't care less about the truth. The number is easy to find online. This is as of 2 months ago. And it's far, far away from 3/4 Billion dollars.
http://d1lge852tjjqow.cloudfront.net...efce8f9093.pdf
And BTW, I'm on your side of this issue. I just find it offensive when certain posters resort to outright falsehoods to push their agenda. Everybody has a vote. It helps nobody when you lie and don't own up to it.
In my short time here, I find it interesting that the posters who are called on falsehoods are usually the posters with thousands of posts. As if being a prolific poster gives them a license to run loose with the truth.
.
You guys are so rabid with hate that you couldn't care less about the truth. The number is easy to find online. This is as of 2 months ago. And it's far, far away from 3/4 Billion dollars.
http://d1lge852tjjqow.cloudfront.net...efce8f9093.pdf
And BTW, I'm on your side of this issue. I just find it offensive when certain posters resort to outright falsehoods to push their agenda. Everybody has a vote. It helps nobody when you lie and don't own up to it.
In my short time here, I find it interesting that the posters who are called on falsehoods are usually the posters with thousands of posts. As if being a prolific poster gives them a license to run loose with the truth.
.
07-09-2015, 06:23 AM
#175
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,418
Show me the money!
Just like Tom Cruise in "Jerry Maguire" all I've been hearing since bankruptcy, which we all collectively started on the exact same date, is "Show me money!" I'm reminded of that as I watch the final two days of the vote for our TA wrap up.
For the last ten years all I've heard is how we need to return our W-2 to the pinnacle of what it was and what we needed to get there. That is, C2004 plus inflation. I mean, that's pretty much all I heard. And as we've taken bite after bite out of the apple to get us closer I kept hearing that it was never enough and that we had to hit one out of the ballpark and get it all back at once.
The strategy of DALPA for the last seven years has been consistent, sound and has paid off. We are almost there. This TA adds another 16% in pay and 2-3% more in other areas. Profit sharing, a part of this TA, has done the rest. No body wanted 3/3 in the last contract and we were told it wouldn't happen and would be fixed. Right? Guess someone was right. Looks like it'll be 3/11.2 as this TA adds 8% to the last year of 2015.
Finally, with this TA, we will be within 10% of C2004 plus inflation and if profits soar maybe we'll actually be there completely by 2018. What happened? Why is the emphasis now on so many other things?
Quite simply there are those who would be against virtually any TA. And they're here to convince you that without another minor adjustment in something, take your pick, you should forget about the very real total value of this TA.
They are "so concerned" about a few negotiated adjustments to the TA that they don't care about the money? I thought that was the main concern?
It's fascinating how there are some people who attempt to take our focus off the ball and tear us down no matter how good those we chose to lead us are doing. Now every small chink in the armor of this TA is trotted out as a final example of their imperfection and what's wrong with this TA. Sick leave, LCA OE trips pulls, international scope adjustments, you name it, are shouted out as the main reasons for voting no. And some very intelligent people are buying it. I even hear people complaining about nickel per diem increases, even though it does match inflation, as a reason to vote no. Some are in hyperdrive about LOA 15-01 'Excise Tax on Employer-Sponsored HealthCoverage' even though it's been explained, repeatedly, that it's a wash. And 25 less RJ's is lambasted as being horrible even though too many RJ's are also one of those things criticized by so many for so many years.
I have discussed the money aspect on here and on Chitchat and have taken heat as "All you care about is the money!" What? I thought that's mainly what it was about? The other stuff is mostly better and we did trade off a few things but to suddenly underemphasize increased pay rates (without profit sharing) that puts $2,400 to $4,900 a month more in our pockets . . . is interesting.
They also want you to forget you work for an airline and you live in a volatile world. Suddenly, terrorist attacks, wars, downturns, and unfair competition are things of the past and we should ignore trouble that is clearly visible, even to a blind man, on the horizon.
This TA is not perfect. It is negotiated by men chosen by our elected leaders with men who would prefer to give us nothing. They have given us more money, as was our number priority. Early. It's not something hit out of the ballpark but it's another single and multiple hits win basball games. They have also improved many other areas for us, held the line on others and made compromises. I want perfection. Reality intrudes.
They showed us the money.
Now.
Just like Tom Cruise in "Jerry Maguire" all I've been hearing since bankruptcy, which we all collectively started on the exact same date, is "Show me money!" I'm reminded of that as I watch the final two days of the vote for our TA wrap up.
For the last ten years all I've heard is how we need to return our W-2 to the pinnacle of what it was and what we needed to get there. That is, C2004 plus inflation. I mean, that's pretty much all I heard. And as we've taken bite after bite out of the apple to get us closer I kept hearing that it was never enough and that we had to hit one out of the ballpark and get it all back at once.
The strategy of DALPA for the last seven years has been consistent, sound and has paid off. We are almost there. This TA adds another 16% in pay and 2-3% more in other areas. Profit sharing, a part of this TA, has done the rest. No body wanted 3/3 in the last contract and we were told it wouldn't happen and would be fixed. Right? Guess someone was right. Looks like it'll be 3/11.2 as this TA adds 8% to the last year of 2015.
Finally, with this TA, we will be within 10% of C2004 plus inflation and if profits soar maybe we'll actually be there completely by 2018. What happened? Why is the emphasis now on so many other things?
Quite simply there are those who would be against virtually any TA. And they're here to convince you that without another minor adjustment in something, take your pick, you should forget about the very real total value of this TA.
They are "so concerned" about a few negotiated adjustments to the TA that they don't care about the money? I thought that was the main concern?
It's fascinating how there are some people who attempt to take our focus off the ball and tear us down no matter how good those we chose to lead us are doing. Now every small chink in the armor of this TA is trotted out as a final example of their imperfection and what's wrong with this TA. Sick leave, LCA OE trips pulls, international scope adjustments, you name it, are shouted out as the main reasons for voting no. And some very intelligent people are buying it. I even hear people complaining about nickel per diem increases, even though it does match inflation, as a reason to vote no. Some are in hyperdrive about LOA 15-01 'Excise Tax on Employer-Sponsored HealthCoverage' even though it's been explained, repeatedly, that it's a wash. And 25 less RJ's is lambasted as being horrible even though too many RJ's are also one of those things criticized by so many for so many years.
I have discussed the money aspect on here and on Chitchat and have taken heat as "All you care about is the money!" What? I thought that's mainly what it was about? The other stuff is mostly better and we did trade off a few things but to suddenly underemphasize increased pay rates (without profit sharing) that puts $2,400 to $4,900 a month more in our pockets . . . is interesting.
They also want you to forget you work for an airline and you live in a volatile world. Suddenly, terrorist attacks, wars, downturns, and unfair competition are things of the past and we should ignore trouble that is clearly visible, even to a blind man, on the horizon.
This TA is not perfect. It is negotiated by men chosen by our elected leaders with men who would prefer to give us nothing. They have given us more money, as was our number priority. Early. It's not something hit out of the ballpark but it's another single and multiple hits win basball games. They have also improved many other areas for us, held the line on others and made compromises. I want perfection. Reality intrudes.
They showed us the money.
Now.
07-09-2015, 06:51 AM
#176
Sick of whiners
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: 767 VEOP
Posts: 507
And you pro-ta dalpa stooges are so infatuated with yourselves that you can't even notice when your being played like a fiddle by a few expensive suits.
No it's cool, we get it. The MEC wants us to make a well-informed, unemotional-based vote, as long as its in favor CA2015.
No it's cool, we get it. The MEC wants us to make a well-informed, unemotional-based vote, as long as its in favor CA2015.
Thank you for making my point about being so full of hate that you can't see the forest for the trees.
Branding me as a pro-ta, yes-voting stooge? If you had bothered to read my post, you might have been able to discern, through your anger, that I am NOT in favor of the TA. But I guess that here in forum-land, it's much easier to FIRE-READY-AIM than to analyze.
Pretty pathetic. Seek professional help.
.
07-09-2015, 07:01 AM
#177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
Show me the money!
Just like Tom Cruise in "Jerry Maguire" all I've been hearing since bankruptcy, which we all collectively started on the exact same date, is "Show me money!" I'm reminded of that as I watch the final two days of the vote for our TA wrap up.
For the last ten years all I've heard is how we need to return our W-2 to the pinnacle of what it was and what we needed to get there. That is, C2004 plus inflation. I mean, that's pretty much all I heard. And as we've taken bite after bite out of the apple to get us closer I kept hearing that it was never enough and that we had to hit one out of the ballpark and get it all back at once.
The strategy of DALPA for the last seven years has been consistent, sound and has paid off. We are almost there. This TA adds another 16% in pay and 2-3% more in other areas. Profit sharing, a part of this TA, has done the rest. No body wanted 3/3 in the last contract and we were told it wouldn't happen and would be fixed. Right? Guess someone was right. Looks like it'll be 3/11.2 as this TA adds 8% to the last year of 2015.
Finally, with this TA, we will be within 10% of C2004 plus inflation and if profits soar maybe we'll actually be there completely by 2018. What happened? Why is the emphasis now on so many other things?
Quite simply there are those who would be against virtually any TA. And they're here to convince you that without another minor adjustment in something, take your pick, you should forget about the very real total value of this TA.
They are "so concerned" about a few negotiated adjustments to the TA that they don't care about the money? I thought that was the main concern?
It's fascinating how there are some people who attempt to take our focus off the ball and tear us down no matter how good those we chose to lead us are doing. Now every small chink in the armor of this TA is trotted out as a final example of their imperfection and what's wrong with this TA. Sick leave, LCA OE trips pulls, international scope adjustments, you name it, are shouted out as the main reasons for voting no. And some very intelligent people are buying it. I even hear people complaining about nickel per diem increases, even though it does match inflation, as a reason to vote no. Some are in hyperdrive about LOA 15-01 'Excise Tax on Employer-Sponsored HealthCoverage' even though it's been explained, repeatedly, that it's a wash. And 25 less RJ's is lambasted as being horrible even though too many RJ's are also one of those things criticized by so many for so many years.
I have discussed the money aspect on here and on Chitchat and have taken heat as "All you care about is the money!" What? I thought that's mainly what it was about? The other stuff is mostly better and we did trade off a few things but to suddenly underemphasize increased pay rates (without profit sharing) that puts $2,400 to $4,900 a month more in our pockets . . . is interesting.
They also want you to forget you work for an airline and you live in a volatile world. Suddenly, terrorist attacks, wars, downturns, and unfair competition are things of the past and we should ignore trouble that is clearly visible, even to a blind man, on the horizon.
This TA is not perfect. It is negotiated by men chosen by our elected leaders with men who would prefer to give us nothing. They have given us more money, as was our number priority. Early. It's not something hit out of the ballpark but it's another single and multiple hits win basball games. They have also improved many other areas for us, held the line on others and made compromises. I want perfection. Reality intrudes.
They showed us the money.
Now.
Just like Tom Cruise in "Jerry Maguire" all I've been hearing since bankruptcy, which we all collectively started on the exact same date, is "Show me money!" I'm reminded of that as I watch the final two days of the vote for our TA wrap up.
For the last ten years all I've heard is how we need to return our W-2 to the pinnacle of what it was and what we needed to get there. That is, C2004 plus inflation. I mean, that's pretty much all I heard. And as we've taken bite after bite out of the apple to get us closer I kept hearing that it was never enough and that we had to hit one out of the ballpark and get it all back at once.
The strategy of DALPA for the last seven years has been consistent, sound and has paid off. We are almost there. This TA adds another 16% in pay and 2-3% more in other areas. Profit sharing, a part of this TA, has done the rest. No body wanted 3/3 in the last contract and we were told it wouldn't happen and would be fixed. Right? Guess someone was right. Looks like it'll be 3/11.2 as this TA adds 8% to the last year of 2015.
Finally, with this TA, we will be within 10% of C2004 plus inflation and if profits soar maybe we'll actually be there completely by 2018. What happened? Why is the emphasis now on so many other things?
Quite simply there are those who would be against virtually any TA. And they're here to convince you that without another minor adjustment in something, take your pick, you should forget about the very real total value of this TA.
They are "so concerned" about a few negotiated adjustments to the TA that they don't care about the money? I thought that was the main concern?
It's fascinating how there are some people who attempt to take our focus off the ball and tear us down no matter how good those we chose to lead us are doing. Now every small chink in the armor of this TA is trotted out as a final example of their imperfection and what's wrong with this TA. Sick leave, LCA OE trips pulls, international scope adjustments, you name it, are shouted out as the main reasons for voting no. And some very intelligent people are buying it. I even hear people complaining about nickel per diem increases, even though it does match inflation, as a reason to vote no. Some are in hyperdrive about LOA 15-01 'Excise Tax on Employer-Sponsored HealthCoverage' even though it's been explained, repeatedly, that it's a wash. And 25 less RJ's is lambasted as being horrible even though too many RJ's are also one of those things criticized by so many for so many years.
I have discussed the money aspect on here and on Chitchat and have taken heat as "All you care about is the money!" What? I thought that's mainly what it was about? The other stuff is mostly better and we did trade off a few things but to suddenly underemphasize increased pay rates (without profit sharing) that puts $2,400 to $4,900 a month more in our pockets . . . is interesting.
They also want you to forget you work for an airline and you live in a volatile world. Suddenly, terrorist attacks, wars, downturns, and unfair competition are things of the past and we should ignore trouble that is clearly visible, even to a blind man, on the horizon.
This TA is not perfect. It is negotiated by men chosen by our elected leaders with men who would prefer to give us nothing. They have given us more money, as was our number priority. Early. It's not something hit out of the ballpark but it's another single and multiple hits win basball games. They have also improved many other areas for us, held the line on others and made compromises. I want perfection. Reality intrudes.
They showed us the money.
Now.
I've said it before RA wants industry leading performance for industry STANDARD pay. Delta gets a premium on their tickets compared to the competition. Don't we deserve a premium on our performance?
I know you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate. Too bad our negotiators were amateurs.
07-09-2015, 07:11 AM
#179
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Thank you for making my point about being so full of hate that you can't see the forest for the trees.
Branding me as a pro-ta, yes-voting stooge? If you had bothered to read my post, you might have been able to discern, through your anger, that I am NOT in favor of the TA. But I guess that here in forum-land, it's much easier to FIRE-READY-AIM than to analyze.
Pretty pathetic. Seek professional help.
.
Branding me as a pro-ta, yes-voting stooge? If you had bothered to read my post, you might have been able to discern, through your anger, that I am NOT in favor of the TA. But I guess that here in forum-land, it's much easier to FIRE-READY-AIM than to analyze.
Pretty pathetic. Seek professional help.
.
I know, I get it, your an avid NO for C2015, but see many merits in voting YES and think we should all blah, blah-blah, bibity-blab, yadda, yadda.
Learn to take a joke.
07-09-2015, 07:29 AM
#180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
And you pro-ta dalpa stooges are so infatuated with yourselves that you can't even notice when your being played like a fiddle by a few expensive suits.
No it's cool, we get it. The MEC wants us to make a well-informed, unemotional-based vote, as long as its in favor CA2015.
No it's cool, we get it. The MEC wants us to make a well-informed, unemotional-based vote, as long as its in favor CA2015.
Very nice.
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