The Case For Voting Yes - Multiple Parts
07-07-2015, 03:26 PM
#141
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
What I find interesting is there's something for every demographic to dislike. I just don't think the company or their legal consultants are that dumb. I guess they think the money alone will get them to 51%?
I haven't been to work since the end of last month and I didn't talk to anyone who supported the TA. Now we're hearing rumors of guys changing their votes? Interesting........
Anyway, if those rumors are true I guess I can toss my conspiracy theory in the crapper
I initially thought this thing was going down hard.
Ferd
I haven't been to work since the end of last month and I didn't talk to anyone who supported the TA. Now we're hearing rumors of guys changing their votes? Interesting........
Anyway, if those rumors are true I guess I can toss my conspiracy theory in the crapper
I initially thought this thing was going down hard.Ferd
For example... it only affects x%. Well, that x% isn't the same people every year... its a rotating group and eventually almost everyone at the airline will be "touched" by it.
Add up the other portions that "only affect x%" and you have far and above most of the pilot group affected by at least one of the concessions.
07-07-2015, 04:00 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
monetizing PS most definitely makes sense. However, they monetized it then sold it to us as part of the pay raise, and that, as you were alluding to, is poor form.
Im ok with training PS for pay but then that becomes the new BASELINE. From there, you negotatiate a real pay raise off that baseline. We didn't do that. Its marginal. And to add insult to injury, the new PTIX formula is going to haunt us. and 3B4 is now going to be useless. And our sick policy is invasive. And our scope is being chipped away. I really don't want to work for a Holdings company. I want to work for an airline.
Im ok with training PS for pay but then that becomes the new BASELINE. From there, you negotatiate a real pay raise off that baseline. We didn't do that. Its marginal. And to add insult to injury, the new PTIX formula is going to haunt us. and 3B4 is now going to be useless. And our sick policy is invasive. And our scope is being chipped away. I really don't want to work for a Holdings company. I want to work for an airline.
07-08-2015, 02:59 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Fetal
Posts: 1,148
And unfortunately, it is what it is. You either have to come to terms with it or not. I really don't believe there will be any more money if we say no, but I could be wrong. PS will not magically disappear on the list of management's wants just because we do not like it. I don't think the PTIX formula is that big of a deal, but it is a bit puzzling to me. It does seem that management is slapping us with that one, and I personally find it a bit hurtful. Again though, it is what it is, and I don't think in a redux it will change. Sick leave: The future is going to be worse no matter how this goes down. If you voted Democratic in the last 2 presidential elections, look in the mirror for the one responsible.
Hey Eeyore, with that attitude do you make ANY decisions in your day-to-day life or do you just let things happen because"that's the way it is and there's nothing I can do about it..."? Your vote is the only thing you can do. If we don't end up with a better, more agreeable TA for both parties after a no vote, at least we can hold up our heads and say we did what was right.
And to say Obama is responsible for loss of voluntary verification is just out there, man.
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07-08-2015, 03:21 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,028
What I find interesting is there's something for every demographic to dislike. I just don't think the company or their legal consultants are that dumb. I guess they think the money alone will get them to 51%?
I haven't been to work since the end of last month and I didn't talk to anyone who supported the TA. Now we're hearing rumors of guys changing their votes? Interesting........
Anyway, if those rumors are true I guess I can toss my conspiracy theory in the crapper I initially thought this thing was going down hard.
Ferd
I haven't been to work since the end of last month and I didn't talk to anyone who supported the TA. Now we're hearing rumors of guys changing their votes? Interesting........
Anyway, if those rumors are true I guess I can toss my conspiracy theory in the crapper
I initially thought this thing was going down hard.Ferd
07-08-2015, 03:24 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: A330 First Officer
Posts: 1,465
What I find interesting is there's something for every demographic to dislike. I just don't think the company or their legal consultants are that dumb. I guess they think the money alone will get them to 51%?
I haven't been to work since the end of last month and I didn't talk to anyone who supported the TA. Now we're hearing rumors of guys changing their votes? Interesting........
Anyway, if those rumors are true I guess I can toss my conspiracy theory in the crapper I initially thought this thing was going down hard.
Ferd
I haven't been to work since the end of last month and I didn't talk to anyone who supported the TA. Now we're hearing rumors of guys changing their votes? Interesting........
Anyway, if those rumors are true I guess I can toss my conspiracy theory in the crapper
I initially thought this thing was going down hard.Ferd
We are called the w2 airline for a reason. We get target fixation on one section and let the others slide.
07-08-2015, 04:47 AM
#146
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
Yeah this happens every time. This is just my opinion, Guys come out hot against the TA then get beat down by their own union and this time we had the added nugget of the July 3rd podcast to put the fear into people. So they go back to the privacy of their own home and look one last time at section 3 then vote yes but not before taking a picture of them checking the no block first. I still think this thing is going down but it will be close and no matter which way it goes about 50% of the pilots will be ****ed.
We are called the w2 airline for a reason. We get target fixation on one section and let the others slide.
We are called the w2 airline for a reason. We get target fixation on one section and let the others slide.
The conversations to convince folks to vote no went extremely well until RAs "death threat" a few days ago (death of negotiations, not an actual threat on our lives, legal disclaimer). Then all of a sudden pilots felt empowered to publicly say they were changing their votes to yes. It'ike some kind of crutch. RA enabled them to fall off the wagon again.
07-08-2015, 04:47 AM
#147
Senior by choice
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 427
And unfortunately, it is what it is. You either have to come to terms with it or not. I really don't believe there will be any more money if we say no, but I could be wrong. PS will not magically disappear on the list of management's wants just because we do not like it. I don't think the PTIX formula is that big of a deal, but it is a bit puzzling to me. It does seem that management is slapping us with that one, and I personally find it a bit hurtful. Again though, it is what it is, and I don't think in a redux it will change. Sick leave: The future is going to be worse no matter how this goes down. If you voted Democratic in the last 2 presidential elections, look in the mirror for the one responsible.
07-08-2015, 07:31 AM
#148
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
07-08-2015, 10:09 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,418
The 5.74% trade includes the new formula. It's not more than that.
Also, by 2018 it is actually 5.14% as rising pay rates reduce the trade's effect.
07-08-2015, 10:59 AM
#150
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
how can the PTIX formula include management bonuses that have not been calculated yet? Its variable for one, and for two, what number did they use?
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