Originally Posted by ERflyer

Management Plans If TA Fails

In case the TA is voted down what are the possible paths management could take?

1 - The number one priority in regards to other employee groups has always been to keep out other employee unions. The pilot rejection of the TA will not be rewarded under any circumstance.

2 - Delayed reengagement for 2-3 years. Go through the motion of reengagement but nothing will move toward a new TA.

3 - 3.B.4 is not triggered.
Employee "raises" are to be the increasing profit sharing payout. Their increased profit sharing increases their wages about 4-5% a year.

4 - 3.B.5 is not triggered. "Note: [3.B.5] will terminate on December, 31, 2015". Employees are given "bonuses" equal to 4-5% of annual wages each year in addition to profit sharing. If profits decrease more "bonuses" will be awarded to other employee groups.

5 - 3.B.4 is not triggered.
Employees are given raises but it is only to 29% of employees each year. (30% is what triggers 3.B.4). The raises are 12-15% of W-2 and given every 3 years.

The above are "the new triad" strategy for other employee W-2 increases to eliminate triggering 3.B.4 and are blended together in conjunction with each other. Additionally, increased benefits could also be added and also not trigger 3.B.4. January 1, 2016 3.B.5 is a non-issue.

6 - Pilot hiring will be maintained at 135 a month and will increase to 150 a month if feasible. This far outstrips retirements. Pilot staffing shortages disappear in 12 months and green slips become a rarity. There are excess pilots during the winter but average copilot pay decreases by 25% as green slips become a thing of the past. Some pilots see a 35% decrease in pay as green slips decrease to a goal of 50-100 per month for the entire airline.

7 - As pilot staffing is increased more pilots are pushed onto reserve during winter months. Reserve pay is at least 6% less. Pilot efficiency decreases but is a reasonable tradeoff for #1 above.

8 - Management affirms that it is cheaper to overstaff pilot categories. Open time disappears across most categories making filling up for the month difficult. Individual pilot pay decreases by 5-10%.

9 - The increased pilot hiring and staffing will be easily funded by the 8% and 6% ( a now nonexistent 14.5% in a span of six months ) increase in pilot pay that was expected to be paid under the TA. During the first year $150 million from the rejected TA can be spent to increase pilot hiring. New hires are cheap.

10 - The other $220 million per year in savings from the rejected pilot TA will be returned to stockholders.

11 - Management will simply explain that they offered to pay their pilots 22-24% more than American to the NMB. The NMB understandably puts Delta on the back burner. They're busy with several other airlines and several other non-airline corporation's labor issues. Quite frankly the NMB is busy and Delta is just something else to do added to the list. The bottom of the list.

For reference Linda A. Puchala, one of three members of the NMB, makes a salary of $155,000 a year. Understandably she has little sympathy for Delta pilots as every pilot (except 190/95 FO) over 12 years would have made more than her with this TA.

12 - A quick resolution is a possibility that may be pursued. A slim possibility resulting in less money paid out to pilots and not greatly changed work rule improvements for pilots. Either way the new TA would no doubt be attacked by many pilots as - once again - less than perfect or not achieving "restoration". Pilot disunity has been achieved as one of management's negotiating aims. Bottom line: any new TA will save DAL money.

Originally Posted by ERflyer

For reference Linda A. Puchala, one of three members of the NMB, makes a salary of $155,000 a year. Understandably she has little sympathy for Delta pilots as every pilot (except 190/95 FO) over 12 years would have made more than her with this TA.

Originally Posted by ERflyer

Management Plans If TA Fails

In case the TA is voted down what are the possible paths management could take?

1 - The number one priority in regards to other employee groups has always been to keep out other employee unions. The pilot rejection of the TA will not be rewarded under any circumstance.

2 - Delayed reengagement for 2-3 years. Go through the motion of reengagement but nothing will move toward a new TA.

3 - 3.B.4 is not triggered.
Employee "raises" are to be the increasing profit sharing payout. Their increased profit sharing increases their wages about 4-5% a year.

4 - 3.B.5 is not triggered. "Note: [3.B.5] will terminate on December, 31, 2015". Employees are given "bonuses" equal to 4-5% of annual wages each year in addition to profit sharing. If profits decrease more "bonuses" will be awarded to other employee groups.

5 - 3.B.4 is not triggered.
Employees are given raises but it is only to 29% of employees each year. (30% is what triggers 3.B.4). The raises are 12-15% of W-2 and given every 3 years.

The above are "the new triad" strategy for other employee W-2 increases to eliminate triggering 3.B.4 and are blended together in conjunction with each other. Additionally, increased benefits could also be added and also not trigger 3.B.4. January 1, 2016 3.B.5 is a non-issue.

6 - Pilot hiring will be maintained at 135 a month and will increase to 150 a month if feasible. This far outstrips retirements. Pilot staffing shortages disappear in 12 months and green slips become a rarity. There are excess pilots during the winter but average copilot pay decreases by 25% as green slips become a thing of the past. Some pilots see a 35% decrease in pay as green slips decrease to a goal of 50-100 per month for the entire airline.

7 - As pilot staffing is increased more pilots are pushed onto reserve during winter months. Reserve pay is at least 6% less. Pilot efficiency decreases but is a reasonable tradeoff for #1 above.

8 - Management affirms that it is cheaper to overstaff pilot categories. Open time disappears across most categories making filling up for the month difficult. Individual pilot pay decreases by 5-10%.

9 - The increased pilot hiring and staffing will be easily funded by the 8% and 6% ( a now nonexistent 14.5% in a span of six months ) increase in pilot pay that was expected to be paid under the TA. During the first year $150 million from the rejected TA can be spent to increase pilot hiring. New hires are cheap.

10 - The other $220 million per year in savings from the rejected pilot TA will be returned to stockholders.

11 - Management will simply explain that they offered to pay their pilots 22-24% more than American to the NMB. The NMB understandably puts Delta on the back burner. They're busy with several other airlines and several other non-airline corporation's labor issues. Quite frankly the NMB is busy and Delta is just something else to do added to the list. The bottom of the list.

For reference Linda A. Puchala, one of three members of the NMB, makes a salary of $155,000 a year. Understandably she has little sympathy for Delta pilots as every pilot (except 190/95 FO) over 12 years would have made more than her with this TA.

12 - A quick resolution is a possibility that may be pursued. A slim possibility resulting in less money paid out to pilots and not greatly changed work rule improvements for pilots. Either way the new TA would no doubt be attacked by many pilots as - once again - less than perfect or not achieving "restoration". Pilot disunity has been achieved as one of management's negotiating aims. Bottom line: any new TA will save DAL money.

Originally Posted by ghilis101

So we're still ignoring work rules? People arent voting no because of 3b4. People are voting no because the contract is overall concessionary. None of your points address that. If we get parked thats fine. We keep our work rules. I get that youre harping on the pay. Pay pay pay pay is the yes mantra. The no voters are more concerned about job protections, QOL, and work rules. Those protections allow us to make more money than Whats being offered, and keep PS.

Also please let the company hire 150 a month and staff our reserves adequately. We would all be thrilled to see that!!! More reason to vote no haha, even though i disagree with your predictions, ill just play along. We still benefit.

Originally Posted by ERflyer

Management Plans If TA Fails

In case the TA is voted down what are the possible paths management could take?...

.

Originally Posted by ERflyer

Management Plans If TA Fails

In case the TA is voted down what are the possible paths management could take?

1 - The number one priority in regards to other employee groups has always been to keep out other employee unions. The pilot rejection of the TA will not be rewarded under any circumstance.

2 - Delayed reengagement for 2-3 years. Go through the motion of reengagement but nothing will move toward a new TA.

3 - 3.B.4 is not triggered.
Employee "raises" are to be the increasing profit sharing payout. Their increased profit sharing increases their wages about 4-5% a year.

4 - 3.B.5 is not triggered. "Note: [3.B.5] will terminate on December, 31, 2015". Employees are given "bonuses" equal to 4-5% of annual wages each year in addition to profit sharing. If profits decrease more "bonuses" will be awarded to other employee groups.

5 - 3.B.4 is not triggered.
Employees are given raises but it is only to 29% of employees each year. (30% is what triggers 3.B.4). The raises are 12-15% of W-2 and given every 3 years.

The above are "the new triad" strategy for other employee W-2 increases to eliminate triggering 3.B.4 and are blended together in conjunction with each other. Additionally, increased benefits could also be added and also not trigger 3.B.4. January 1, 2016 3.B.5 is a non-issue.

6 - Pilot hiring will be maintained at 135 a month and will increase to 150 a month if feasible. This far outstrips retirements. Pilot staffing shortages disappear in 12 months and green slips become a rarity. There are excess pilots during the winter but average copilot pay decreases by 25% as green slips become a thing of the past. Some pilots see a 35% decrease in pay as green slips decrease to a goal of 50-100 per month for the entire airline.

7 - As pilot staffing is increased more pilots are pushed onto reserve during winter months. Reserve pay is at least 6% less. Pilot efficiency decreases but is a reasonable tradeoff for #1 above.

8 - Management affirms that it is cheaper to overstaff pilot categories. Open time disappears across most categories making filling up for the month difficult. Individual pilot pay decreases by 5-10%.

9 - The increased pilot hiring and staffing will be easily funded by the 8% and 6% ( a now nonexistent 14.5% in a span of six months ) increase in pilot pay that was expected to be paid under the TA. During the first year $150 million from the rejected TA can be spent to increase pilot hiring. New hires are cheap.

10 - The other $220 million per year in savings from the rejected pilot TA will be returned to stockholders.

11 - Management will simply explain that they offered to pay their pilots 22-24% more than American to the NMB. The NMB understandably puts Delta on the back burner. They're busy with several other airlines and several other non-airline corporation's labor issues. Quite frankly the NMB is busy and Delta is just something else to do added to the list. The bottom of the list.

For reference Linda A. Puchala, one of three members of the NMB, makes a salary of $155,000 a year. Understandably she has little sympathy for Delta pilots as every pilot (except 190/95 FO) over 12 years would have made more than her with this TA.

12 - A quick resolution is a possibility that may be pursued. A slim possibility resulting in less money paid out to pilots and not greatly changed work rule improvements for pilots. Either way the new TA would no doubt be attacked by many pilots as - once again - less than perfect or not achieving "restoration". Pilot disunity has been achieved as one of management's negotiating aims. Bottom line: any new TA will save DAL money.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank

Meh. You didn't address the strategic value of showing management we have the will to say "no." It can't be defined on a spreadsheet. But it's a big hammer.

Who knows, you may be right about some of those things....IF we don't drive radical personnel and process changes at dalpa after this POS is rejected.

But first, we've got to vote it down.

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez

You're delusional if you think that gives us any real control. All it gives us is solidarity which IS good. And YOUR agenda has been made all to clear in the last several years that I have been reading your postings. We do not control anything that will make things better. Management still controls the timeline, and time is ALWAYS on their side. A no vote will at best garner a TA that is equal to or slightly less 'good'. again, jmho.