Am I the only one?
06-27-2015, 05:53 PM
#1
Straight QOL, homie
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Am I the only one?
The significance and ramifications of this TA vote are starting to weigh on me. I'm ashamed to say it, but it is affecting my home life a little.
I've got decades--and many contracts--left in my flying career. But if this is all we can manage in this environment, imagine how ****ty this career will get in the next downturn.
If this thing passes I'm going to do everything possible to dissuade my mil and civilian buddies from applying here. If Delta thinks they have a manning problem now, wait until no one wants to work here.
Time to dust off the non-flying resume.
I've got decades--and many contracts--left in my flying career. But if this is all we can manage in this environment, imagine how ****ty this career will get in the next downturn.
If this thing passes I'm going to do everything possible to dissuade my mil and civilian buddies from applying here. If Delta thinks they have a manning problem now, wait until no one wants to work here.
Time to dust off the non-flying resume.
06-27-2015, 06:03 PM
#2
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
There is no reason to not wind your watch if it's affecting your home life. Step back and realize there are numerous folks who have already taken that arc in their lives. Believe me, when DAL entered bankruptcy and we took drastic cuts, I was fortunate to get hired by FedEx and was in the final stage of DEC at Emirates. But, what it did was just tell my wife if DAL went under, I was just done with flying.
It's more than a tragedy that the MEC TA'd this thing. Don't let it rule your home life. In an up cycle, we should be looking at a whole lot better contract than this steaming pile.
Step away from the keyboard and realize you only get one vote...that's it.
It's more than a tragedy that the MEC TA'd this thing. Don't let it rule your home life. In an up cycle, we should be looking at a whole lot better contract than this steaming pile.
Step away from the keyboard and realize you only get one vote...that's it.
06-27-2015, 06:04 PM
#3
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,017
The significance and ramifications of this TA vote are starting to weigh on me. I'm ashamed to say it, but it is affecting my home life a little.
I've got decades--and many contracts--left in my flying career. But if this is all we can manage in this environment, imagine how ****ty this career will get in the next downturn.
If this thing passes I'm going to do everything possible to dissuade my mil and civilian buddies from applying here. If Delta thinks they have a manning problem now, wait until no one wants to work here.
Time to dust off the non-flying resume.
I've got decades--and many contracts--left in my flying career. But if this is all we can manage in this environment, imagine how ****ty this career will get in the next downturn.
If this thing passes I'm going to do everything possible to dissuade my mil and civilian buddies from applying here. If Delta thinks they have a manning problem now, wait until no one wants to work here.
Time to dust off the non-flying resume.
I agree with your first premise 100%: If this passes we are lowering the "Bar" so much we are basically laying it on the floor.
I disagree with your second premise 100%: DAL is already a top choice for new hires and if we raise our pay rates we will still be a top choice.
Anyway - time will tell.
Scoop
06-27-2015, 06:11 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,960
This is just bidness we see every 3 or 4 years. It's just nice to know what your boss really thinks about you in between the Flight Ops updates. The one's were he tells you how important you've been to the success of the company. Wind the clock, I like our current contract and those huge profit sharing checks. We'll see how much he likes writing them.
06-27-2015, 06:37 PM
#7
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Purple-
I don't think it's as bad as that. But-
What I think is really at stake here is the nature of our relationship to management. I don't think there's ever been a more favorable bargaining environment in the history of the airline industry. Yet here we are voting to ratify management's "final offer" a full six months before we even reach our amendable date.
ALPA didn't put up much of a fight.
Management has dictated the terms of our contracts for the last 10 years.
If that's the way things are going to be then I don't know why we even need ALPA.
I think we should be a lot more aggressive. I think it would pay off.
That view has been in the minority though.
We'll see if that holds true this time.
I don't think it's as bad as that. But-
What I think is really at stake here is the nature of our relationship to management. I don't think there's ever been a more favorable bargaining environment in the history of the airline industry. Yet here we are voting to ratify management's "final offer" a full six months before we even reach our amendable date.
ALPA didn't put up much of a fight.
Management has dictated the terms of our contracts for the last 10 years.
If that's the way things are going to be then I don't know why we even need ALPA.
I think we should be a lot more aggressive. I think it would pay off.
That view has been in the minority though.
We'll see if that holds true this time.
06-27-2015, 06:55 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
Delta is not the problem. ALPA is.
National and the unelected are going to have to be extracted. This extraction is going to require a hacksaw and a blowtorch because these ticks are dug in deep. Probably just easier to amputate.
National and the unelected are going to have to be extracted. This extraction is going to require a hacksaw and a blowtorch because these ticks are dug in deep. Probably just easier to amputate.
06-27-2015, 07:13 PM
#9
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,756
Purple-
I don't think it's as bad as that. But-
What I think is really at stake here is the nature of our relationship to management. I don't think there's ever been a more favorable bargaining environment in the history of the airline industry. Yet here we are voting to ratify management's "final offer" a full six months before we even reach our amendable date.
ALPA didn't put up much of a fight.
Management has dictated the terms of our contracts for the last 10 years.
If that's the way things are going to be then I don't know why we even need ALPA.
I think we should be a lot more aggressive. I think it would pay off.
That view has been in the minority though.
We'll see if that holds true this time.
I don't think it's as bad as that. But-
What I think is really at stake here is the nature of our relationship to management. I don't think there's ever been a more favorable bargaining environment in the history of the airline industry. Yet here we are voting to ratify management's "final offer" a full six months before we even reach our amendable date.
ALPA didn't put up much of a fight.
Management has dictated the terms of our contracts for the last 10 years.
If that's the way things are going to be then I don't know why we even need ALPA.
I think we should be a lot more aggressive. I think it would pay off.
That view has been in the minority though.
We'll see if that holds true this time.
Good contracts do not come easily. They don't come quickly. If you want a truly historic contract you have to work hard to achieve it and you have to wait out management's BS, that they just cannot afford it. This TA actually makes money for management, not for us.
Right now, we have the best negotiating environment I have ever seen. When we did C2K, Delta had earned $1 Billion, which at the time, was a huge, never before seen profit. Last year, Delta earned $4.5 Billion. This year, Delta should earn about $6 Billion.
Our DB plan was underfunded by about $4 Billion when Delta gave it to the PBGC, and our pay cuts in 2005 were about $1.3 Billion. We are still 18% below our 2004 pay rates, and our retirement funding is tiny compared to what our DB plans were worth at the time, never mind what they would be worth going forward.
The company announced they are going to give $6 Billion to the shareholders, before they restore our sacrifices. They threw this piece of crap at us just for fun, to see if we are stupid enough to fall for a quick 8% raise, funded by concessions throughout the rest of the contract. I don't blame them for trying, but I do blame our MEC for buying into it.
We need to shoot this POS down now, and then we need to reorganize and formulate a new MEC, and a new strategy, because Proactive Appeasement has failed us, obviously, and we need to return to traditional negotiating strategy if we want to restore our profession, where Labor Risk is on the table, where it belongs.
So don't let yourself get all stressed out about this contract. But do tell your friends if they want a better contract, it's going to take a year or so, maybe more. Be patient. Don't stress out, get a puppy, or go fishing, or to the beach, just vote no and then sit back and wait. The sun will come up tomorrow and if Richard wants the Money Making Machine to keep minting billions, he's going to have to come back with a much, much better offer, or the operational performance will start to suffer, no doubt.
No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
06-27-2015, 07:28 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,040
In my 30 years at Delta, I have seen 5 management teams and 8 contract negotiations. The only contract where we got a significant raise and retro active pay was in C2K, and that took 18 months of fighting with management, and a slogan, "Restore the Profession", and we did...for 4 years.
Good contracts do not come easily. They don't come quickly. If you want a truly historic contract you have to work hard to achieve it and you have to wait out management's BS, that they just cannot afford it. This TA actually makes money for management, not for us.
Right now, we have the best negotiating environment I have ever seen. When we did C2K, Delta had earned $1 Billion, which at the time, was a huge, never before seen profit. Last year, Delta earned $4.5 Billion. This year, Delta should earn about $6 Billion.
Our DB plan was underfunded by about $4 Billion when Delta gave it to the PBGC, and our pay cuts in 2005 were about $1.3 Billion. We are still 18% below our 2004 pay rates, and our retirement funding is tiny compared to what our DB plans were worth at the time, never mind what they would be worth going forward.
The company announced they are going to give $6 Billion to the shareholders, before they restore our sacrifices. They threw this piece of crap at us just for fun, to see if we are stupid enough to fall for a quick 8% raise, funded by concessions throughout the rest of the contract. I don't blame them for trying, but I do blame our MEC for buying into it.
We need to shoot this POS down now, and then we need to reorganize and formulate a new MEC, and a new strategy, because Proactive Appeasement has failed us, obviously, and we need to return to traditional negotiating strategy if we want to restore our profession, where Labor Risk is on the table, where it belongs.
So don't let yourself get all stressed out about this contract. But do tell your friends if they want a better contract, it's going to take a year or so, maybe more. Be patient. Don't stress out, get a puppy, or go fishing, or to the beach, just vote no and then sit back and wait. The sun will come up tomorrow and if Richard wants the Money Making Machine to keep minting billions, he's going to have to come back with a much, much better offer, or the operational performance will start to suffer, no doubt.
No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
Good contracts do not come easily. They don't come quickly. If you want a truly historic contract you have to work hard to achieve it and you have to wait out management's BS, that they just cannot afford it. This TA actually makes money for management, not for us.
Right now, we have the best negotiating environment I have ever seen. When we did C2K, Delta had earned $1 Billion, which at the time, was a huge, never before seen profit. Last year, Delta earned $4.5 Billion. This year, Delta should earn about $6 Billion.
Our DB plan was underfunded by about $4 Billion when Delta gave it to the PBGC, and our pay cuts in 2005 were about $1.3 Billion. We are still 18% below our 2004 pay rates, and our retirement funding is tiny compared to what our DB plans were worth at the time, never mind what they would be worth going forward.
The company announced they are going to give $6 Billion to the shareholders, before they restore our sacrifices. They threw this piece of crap at us just for fun, to see if we are stupid enough to fall for a quick 8% raise, funded by concessions throughout the rest of the contract. I don't blame them for trying, but I do blame our MEC for buying into it.
We need to shoot this POS down now, and then we need to reorganize and formulate a new MEC, and a new strategy, because Proactive Appeasement has failed us, obviously, and we need to return to traditional negotiating strategy if we want to restore our profession, where Labor Risk is on the table, where it belongs.
So don't let yourself get all stressed out about this contract. But do tell your friends if they want a better contract, it's going to take a year or so, maybe more. Be patient. Don't stress out, get a puppy, or go fishing, or to the beach, just vote no and then sit back and wait. The sun will come up tomorrow and if Richard wants the Money Making Machine to keep minting billions, he's going to have to come back with a much, much better offer, or the operational performance will start to suffer, no doubt.
No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
