Purple Drank

sounds like I struck a nerve.

"Obstacle?" You think Delta pilots voting no are an obstacle? That says a lot about your agenda.

There is no coordinated "no" campaign. It's a grassroots uprising decrying the totally inadequate and insulting product the "union" produced 7 months prior to the amendable date that addresses every single one of managment's problems....and only creates more problems for us. You seem to equate a "no" vote with some kind of nefarious conspircacy, when in fact, Delta pilots are simply unwilling to bend over to give DALPA a free pass for bailing out the company.

Perhaps this group has examined the TA and determined it's worthy of a "no" vote. That would be quite an "obstacle" for DALPA, I suppose.

I haven't posted anything untrue about this TA. But let's talk about that pesky "responsibility to the truth." Across the internet; in the lounges; and at roadshows, we've seen dozens of instances where P2P or DALPA admin types cherry-pick, mislead, and obfuscate the contents of this POS. I guess you'll just give them a pass.

You're damn right I'm committed to a "specific outcome." It's called a contract befitting our contributions and the company's runaway profitability. And the "organization" I'm advocating for is the Delta pilot group.

Speaking of committment to a "process," do you by chance own a black polo shirt without any logo?

Sink r8

I'm sorry, it sounds like I struck a nerve too. You're getting a bit indignant, for a guy that was on a personal attack two posts ago.

I'll make my case again. I think the evidence in your posts is that you're selling candidates, hard, and you've been open about pushing the DPA, hard... up until recently. Now you attack people. You've been extraordinarily suspicious of anyone with less than a thousand posts that isn't going nuts against ALPA, but somehow you're unfazed by dozens of new posters parroting each other, and cross-pollinating the web with orthodox, approved materials.

I haven't committed to a vote yet, but if I vote yes, it might be because the union is about to tear itself completely apart, no matter the outcome of the vote. DPA/DPA-adjacent groups asking guys to go to road-shows, and present rehearsed speeches, and "charm" voters in the lounges, Delta pilots filming other Delta pilots, putting out approved candidates, candidates needing recall, poling voters, all that's a bit over-the-top, and a little obvious. Problem is, everything was started about one event out of phase. The political season was opened weeks before events warranted. It's obvious. By now, there is hardly a person voting yes, or even an undecided, that would run the gauntlet of ridicule and abuse that they'd be subject to in these parts. In a sense, you're almost a victim of your own success, in turning APC into a gigantic circle-jerk. You've been too good at alienating every neutral, and pushing every lurker away. It's becoming a liability, and it looks to me like it's making you nervous.

I've been saying for years this is a power struggle, and the event/TA/controversy of the day is simply the background. There are some very good people getting caught in the middle who are voting no. I respect them, and the yes voters, and the undecided because I don't find this to be an easy choice personally.

I think the smart move would be to have the courage to let everyone speak, without having a melt-down over everything that doesn't fit your views.

forgot to bid

Pack has a good point.

Good to see an outside point of view.

Purple Drank

The smart move is to let guys evaluate this TA on its merits, and not engage in a balls-out sales job. Please advise Harwood and the rest of the DALPa bureaucracy at your next sales rep conference.

Sink r8

Cool. You ask Tim for permission to release you from your contract, and if I see Harwood, I'll ask if I can have my persona back. He's not involved in P2P, but maybe I can get an audience if I ask nicely.

Packrat

Here's the problem. I was a staunch ALPA guy. Served over a decade in MEC/Committee positions.

When USAir bailed and went independent, the loss of dues hit ALPA hard. Budgets were slashed and member services suffered.

When a LARGE MEC like DALPA pulls crap like this, it makes it easier for the DPA guys to make the case that ALPA isn't serving their interests. From the outside, it looks like the DALPA MEC didn't have the guts to reject a bad TA and pawned it off on MEMRAT.

Granted, I don't really understand the problems, nor do I care because it doesn't effect me personally. However, it pains me to see a bunch of "representatives" who don't have the balls to say, "This TA sucks and our NC needs to go back into the room and make it better."

Because when this TA passes (and it will), they can point the middle finger at the pilot group and say, "Well, YOU voted for it."

I'm a MEMRAT supporter, but ONLY when the NC and MEC have determined that the product is in the best interest of the pilot group as a whole.

PigeonF16

Sink r8,

The TA doesn't put "serious funds in the pocket of 190 drivers..."

We don't have any E190 drivers. Any F/O on property who goes to an F/O E190 is taking a serious pay cut under the new TA pay rates. E190 Capt and F/O pay rates are seriously less than every aircraft Delta currently operates.

Junior F/Os who go to E190 Capt get a slight pay raise compared to 7ER or -400 F/O pay rates. New Hires who go to the E190 get same pay for first year then a pay cut the next year compared to the aircraft we are currently operating.

E190 pay rates are still 84% of B717 which has similar capability in terms of seat load and range (meaning same income stream for the company).

Let's not get giddy over the increase to E190 pay rates

notEnuf

Wow, an afternoon on the boat and I come back to this. Sink, you've been here the whole time? You can prove him wrong then by finishing our debate from earlier, did you do the research yet?

And ouch. Vaseline is supposed to make it feel better that hurt.

Carl Spackler

Your logic attempt fails because of management's nearly pathological obsession in getting this done fast. If playing defense in political purgatory was of any interest whatsoever to them, they would only have engaged in perfunctory negotiations until mediation was required. They didn't do that.

Why you continue this failed logic in ways that attempt to scare pilots from careful negotiations...is troubling.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Yeah, can you imagine how bad it could be right now if DPA were in charge? An elected MEC chairman recalled, negotiator replaced right before they begin, two months of negotiations leading to a TA with massive concessions and self-funded pay raises...then Caplinger screaming at pilots from the podium defending everything. Yup, that's what could have happened had we voted in DPA.

Carl