OE trip pulls
07-04-2015, 12:43 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
My GUESS is that those trips will effectively be designated to the LCPs as OE trips, and once an OE is place on an LCP's line he cannot swap/drop it. They might not have a student's name on it yet, but it will be earmarked for one coming out of training. They would be waiting on a name. Just a guess though.
07-04-2015, 12:48 PM
#52
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,751
An additional little tidbit on the FO trip pulls from the P2P thing in NRT.
After some discussion on the topic, the p2p guys said something to the effect of; "well, we can't get rid of the OE trip pulls because the company really wants it."
WHY AM I PAYING UNION DUES?????
After some discussion on the topic, the p2p guys said something to the effect of; "well, we can't get rid of the OE trip pulls because the company really wants it."
WHY AM I PAYING UNION DUES?????
My PAY AND RETIREMENT RESTORED!
07-04-2015, 12:52 PM
#53
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
That should raise all kinds of warning flags there guys! DALPA insists the changes are insignificant and that we as Pilots will not even notice the change.................................. and yet it is so important to the company it is a deal breaker.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Scoop
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Scoop
Regardless, it should've been a nonstarter NO from the NC. Why? Because it's an abrogation of seniority!
"The company really wants it"
So what!!!!!!
07-04-2015, 12:52 PM
#54
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
For every 1 FO back on reserve due to OE trip pulls, you lose 17-18 days worth of greenslips per month. That usually means around 10 or so FO's not getting a greenslip that month, and most pilots I know average about 1 to 2 GS per month. And this is just based on 1 FO being pushed down!
Moral of the story, your TA pay increase is more than canceled by this. More than canceled. Youll end up making less than what youre making now, just over a 1 day greenslip. ugh.
Moral of the story, your TA pay increase is more than canceled by this. More than canceled. Youll end up making less than what youre making now, just over a 1 day greenslip. ugh.
07-04-2015, 01:09 PM
#55
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Haven't you heard Timbo that Richard is going to purchase annuities for all of the deadzoners? It will only cost just north of 2 million dollars to purchase an annuity to make up for the retirement deficit that I'm currently in.
Back to the LCA TA.
Has anyone considered what effect this TA has on the LCA? Let's see. A senior LCA bids quality 4 day trips during the week. These are the kind of trips that the senior F/O's also bid. Result: all of the senior (top 25%) LCA trips are filled by senior F/O's. This results in the junior LCA having their trips pulled from PBS for the OE scheduler to fill. Result:
1. Senior LCA are the last to have an OE assigned. Why would the OE planner pay a senior F/O to get removed from a senior LCA trip when they have open (cheap) seats elsewhere? Net result: pay cut for the senior LCA.
2. OE trips will be worse. Junior LCA trips may have the 30 hour layovers, red-eyes, quick turn legs, etc. OE trips should be selected based on the quality of training, not if there's an open (cheap seat) to fill. Which do you think the OE planner is going to be pressured to use? Cheap or good?
Back to the LCA TA.
Has anyone considered what effect this TA has on the LCA? Let's see. A senior LCA bids quality 4 day trips during the week. These are the kind of trips that the senior F/O's also bid. Result: all of the senior (top 25%) LCA trips are filled by senior F/O's. This results in the junior LCA having their trips pulled from PBS for the OE scheduler to fill. Result:
1. Senior LCA are the last to have an OE assigned. Why would the OE planner pay a senior F/O to get removed from a senior LCA trip when they have open (cheap) seats elsewhere? Net result: pay cut for the senior LCA.
2. OE trips will be worse. Junior LCA trips may have the 30 hour layovers, red-eyes, quick turn legs, etc. OE trips should be selected based on the quality of training, not if there's an open (cheap seat) to fill. Which do you think the OE planner is going to be pressured to use? Cheap or good?
07-04-2015, 01:15 PM
#56
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
Haven't you heard Timbo that Richard is going to purchase annuities for all of the deadzoners? It will only cost just north of 2 million dollars to purchase an annuity to make up for the retirement deficit that I'm currently in.
Back to the LCA TA.
Has anyone considered what effect this TA has on the LCA? Let's see. A senior LCA bids quality 4 day trips during the week. These are the kind of trips that the senior F/O's also bid. Result: all of the senior (top 25%) LCA trips are filled by senior F/O's. This results in the junior LCA having their trips pulled from PBS for the OE scheduler to fill. Result:
1. Senior LCA are the last to have an OE assigned. Why would the OE planner pay a senior F/O to get removed from a senior LCA trip when they have open (cheap) seats elsewhere? Net result: pay cut for the senior LCA.
2. OE trips will be worse. Junior LCA trips may have the 30 hour layovers, red-eyes, quick turn legs, etc. OE trips should be selected based on the quality of training, not if there's an open (cheap seat) to fill. Which do you think the OE planner is going to be pressured to use? Cheap or good?
Back to the LCA TA.
Has anyone considered what effect this TA has on the LCA? Let's see. A senior LCA bids quality 4 day trips during the week. These are the kind of trips that the senior F/O's also bid. Result: all of the senior (top 25%) LCA trips are filled by senior F/O's. This results in the junior LCA having their trips pulled from PBS for the OE scheduler to fill. Result:
1. Senior LCA are the last to have an OE assigned. Why would the OE planner pay a senior F/O to get removed from a senior LCA trip when they have open (cheap) seats elsewhere? Net result: pay cut for the senior LCA.
2. OE trips will be worse. Junior LCA trips may have the 30 hour layovers, red-eyes, quick turn legs, etc. OE trips should be selected based on the quality of training, not if there's an open (cheap seat) to fill. Which do you think the OE planner is going to be pressured to use? Cheap or good?
good point not to mention the "what if's" when an LCA drops and swaps rotations. Basically if youre an LCA, you will have your wrist slapped by the company if you swap a trip, because you just put a wrench in their whole system. This system was designed in such haste it didn't take into account that our LCA's are pilots too and they rearrange their schedule to meet various needs.
07-04-2015, 09:27 PM
#57
Sick of whiners
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: 767 VEOP
Posts: 507
.
Wow, I'm pretty new here, but you're going to have to show your math on this one! I am not saying that you are wrong, just that your assertion of that many lost GSs is so high, that I'm shocked.
Please show your work.
What category are you in and how long have you been in it? (NYC ER?)
07-04-2015, 09:35 PM
#58
Sick of whiners
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: 767 VEOP
Posts: 507
good point not to mention the "what if's" when an LCA drops and swaps rotations. Basically if youre an LCA, you will have your wrist slapped by the company if you swap a trip, because you just put a wrench in their whole system. This system was designed in such haste it didn't take into account that our LCA's are pilots too and they rearrange their schedule to meet various needs.
OK, now I KNOW you're just making $hit up. I do not believe ANY statement above is true. What is your source for the above paragraph? because an LC buddy of mine says it's bogus.
You seem to be a prolific poster. (2,200+) Where do you get all of this knowledge? How long have you been at Delta? ARE YOU EVEN A DELTA PILOT or are you so twisted that you feel compelled to inject BS into a seriously technical contract discussion?
07-05-2015, 02:01 AM
#59
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
.
.
Wow, I'm pretty new here, but you're going to have to show your math on this one! I am not saying that you are wrong, just that your assertion of that many lost GSs is so high, that I'm shocked.
Please show your work.
What category are you in and how long have you been in it? (NYC ER?)
.
Wow, I'm pretty new here, but you're going to have to show your math on this one! I am not saying that you are wrong, just that your assertion of that many lost GSs is so high, that I'm shocked.
Please show your work.
What category are you in and how long have you been in it? (NYC ER?)
Prior to that i was atlmd88 ... Phone rang off the hook every day, gs, ia, you name it.
Last edited by ghilis101; 07-05-2015 at 02:12 AM.
07-05-2015, 02:09 AM
#60
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
.
OK, now I KNOW you're just making $hit up. I do not believe ANY statement above is true. What is your source for the above paragraph? because an LC buddy of mine says it's bogus.
You seem to be a prolific poster. (2,200+) Where do you get all of this knowledge? How long have you been at Delta? ARE YOU EVEN A DELTA PILOT or are you so twisted that you feel compelled to inject BS into a seriously technical contract discussion?
OK, now I KNOW you're just making $hit up. I do not believe ANY statement above is true. What is your source for the above paragraph? because an LC buddy of mine says it's bogus.
You seem to be a prolific poster. (2,200+) Where do you get all of this knowledge? How long have you been at Delta? ARE YOU EVEN A DELTA PILOT or are you so twisted that you feel compelled to inject BS into a seriously technical contract discussion?
Ok so under the new TA, an LCA swaps his trip. The original rotation that he was awarded was pulled from FO bidding. Now that the LCA swapped, and training puts an OE on that new rotation, they have to buy out the FO that was on the rotation. The original rotation then goes into FO open time. The company would be less than thrilled with this practice. Do you not agree with any of this?
Thats how the system will work, So I contend yes, the company will put a lot of pressure on LCAs to not swap trips or else it defeats the purpose of all this. Ive talked to LCAs about how they risk losing their check airman letter if they arent a "team player." no surprises there, that's expected of them.
Tell me how im off base with this?
Last edited by ghilis101; 07-05-2015 at 02:20 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
